|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:23 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Dipso wrote:
| Quote: |
| it would seem that the poor exhange rate is affecting teacher recruitment. When I was first here in 1998, all teachers at my company were required to have a Celta or equivalent and most of my colleagues had prior overseas teaching experience too. When I returned to Japan in 2006, I discovered that I was one of very few certified EFL teachers in my entire region and that most of my colleagues are fresh from university with no teaching experience. |
I also came here in 1998 and saw nothing of what you described. JET ALTs don't need more than a BA degree and never have since JET's inception 20 years ago. The Big Four eikaiwas hire almost the same number of teachers as JET hires ALTs, and they don't require any such qualifications. Never have. That makes up the bulk of teachers in Japan aside from university teachers, which is another story entirely. I think your view is something limited to the experience you had here.
As far as exchange rate affecting employment, I would have to beg to differ. For one thing, what nationalities are mostly hired here? Americans, Brits, Canadians, and Aussies. According to JET's number, Americans are in the majority. Looking at the exchange rate since 1998, we can see that it has waffled between 100 and 130 yen/dollar, but it has mostly stayed closer to 120-125. Not a big sway. I don't know about the other currencies, so I hope people chip in on what they know.
What I have seen is this. Dispatch companies are taking over. They pay varied salaries depending on one's nationality, and they are lower than the norm that has been around for about 20 years (that is, 250,000 yen/month). What's more, in the past 2-3 years, eikaiwas have become cagier in how they pay employees, to the tune of juggling the number of work hours they report for tax purposes, and thus avoiding copayments on health insurance. One place caved in recently and made the copayments, but to compensate, it lowered the teacher's salaries about 20,000 yen/month. In general, I have seen eikaiwas other than the Big Four offering 170,000 to 220,000 yen/month as standard salaries in the past couple of years. Horrendous wages at the lower end! Why is this? It certainly isn't due to any exchange rate, because you'd have to say that all countries' rates were affected similarly, and I'm willing to bet they haven't. Schools and companies have just become stingier because of the economy here, not the foreign exchange rates.
How has this affected the teaching population? Desperate people take whatever they can get, without any attempt at negotiations, thus propagating the lower and lower wages. "Hey, Mr. Applicant, if you don't want this job, there are 30 other guys in line behind you who will take it. Step aside."
Personally, I think there are a lot of people coming here who still get their information second- and thirdhand with very outdated news about what it's like to teach and live here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dipso
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 194
Location: England
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
Dipso wrote:
| Quote: |
| it would seem that the poor exhange rate is affecting teacher recruitment. When I was first here in 1998, all teachers at my company were required to have a Celta or equivalent and most of my colleagues had prior overseas teaching experience too. When I returned to Japan in 2006, I discovered that I was one of very few certified EFL teachers in my entire region and that most of my colleagues are fresh from university with no teaching experience. |
I also came here in 1998 and saw nothing of what you described. JET ALTs don't need more than a BA degree and never have since JET's inception 20 years ago. The Big Four eikaiwas hire almost the same number of teachers as JET hires ALTs, and they don't require any such qualifications. Never have. That makes up the bulk of teachers in Japan aside from university teachers, which is another story entirely. I think your view is something limited to the experience you had here.
|
In 1998 I worked at a large-ish eikaiwa chain in the Kanto region - not one of the Big Four, however. All teachers were required to have a TEFL qualification. This is now no longer the case at that particular company. I am surprised to learn that it wasn't standard for teachers to have to have tefl certification in the late 1990s. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
Schools and companies have just become stingier because of the economy here, not the foreign exchange rates.
How has this affected the teaching population? Desperate people take whatever they can get, without any attempt at negotiations, thus propagating the lower and lower wages. "Hey, Mr. Applicant, if you don't want this job, there are 30 other guys in line behind you who will take it. Step aside."
|
All absolutely true, especially the "Hey Mr. Applicant..there are 30 other guys in line behind you who will take it" part. And the reason why there are 30 gys in line behind them is that Japanese people/companies simply do not value training. They say they do. But it's really about show. Even heads of English departments in both private and public schools really don't know what is studied in university English teacher preparation certificates or masters degrees or, at the other end of the spectrum, 40hour weekend long quick certificates. They go based souly on the name, the way they base their opinion of people's language and or often personality based on their passport.
| Mark wrote: |
| Hopefully, at some point, they'll replace the university entrance exam with a much more communicative exam. But I tend to think that Japanese teachers would probably just continue teaching the same way. Many of them seem convinced that the present system really is the best way for Japanese to learn foreign languages. |
Japanese teachers "can't" teach in another way. Most of them do not have the English language skills necessary for a less structured class (and no desire to study English), and most would rather not spend the time required for lesson planning and material preparation that is required out of anything other than "Open your books to page 38. Repeat after me..." because there's "nothing in it for them".
The concept of wanting something better for our children doesn't really apply in Japan. Teachers (and they have told me this at enkais in the past) think that even if it was really bad, they had to put up with it so why shouldn't their kids (parenting is another severly lacking area, but that's really a seperate, but linked, topic)?
Already there are kids in class with much higher levels of English at the Senior High and Junior high (and in rare cases - like if they've spent time in an English speaking country, something most Japanese English teachers have not done- elementary level) than the Japanese person teaching the class. A girl working at the 7/11 in my old town had nearly flawless English- far better than any English teacher at either the Board of Education or any of the schools in the town. In Japan, a teacher isn't necessarily someone who can teach or even knows the subject that they are supposed to teach. It's someone who has memorized the list of rules that explain what a teacher is and has passed a test in which they spit out those rules (which can be seen by the manner in which they teach as well). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eva Pilot
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Far West of the Far East
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
If I return home at the end of this year to finish university, will I be able to come back and find work again?
I am already beginning to stress over this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dipso wrote: |
I am surprised to learn that it wasn't standard for teachers to have to have tefl certification in the late 1990s. |
Or the early 90s. Or the late 80s. Indeed, I'd say even today, 90% of employers here have never heard of Celta and Delta certificates, and having an MA TESOL still gets you only a slight pay raise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 500
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| Mark wrote: |
| Hopefully, at some point, they'll replace the university entrance exam with a much more communicative exam. But I tend to think that Japanese teachers would probably just continue teaching the same way. Many of them seem convinced that the present system really is the best way for Japanese to learn foreign languages. |
Japanese teachers "can't" teach in another way. Most of them do not have the English language skills necessary for a less structured class (and no desire to study English), and most would rather not spend the time required for lesson planning and material preparation that is required out of anything other than "Open your books to page 38. Repeat after me..." because there's "nothing in it for them".
The concept of wanting something better for our children doesn't really apply in Japan. Teachers (and they have told me this at enkais in the past) think that even if it was really bad, they had to put up with it so why shouldn't their kids (parenting is another severly lacking area, but that's really a seperate, but linked, topic)?
Already there are kids in class with much higher levels of English at the Senior High and Junior high (and in rare cases - like if they've spent time in an English speaking country, something most Japanese English teachers have not done- elementary level) than the Japanese person teaching the class. A girl working at the 7/11 in my old town had nearly flawless English- far better than any English teacher at either the Board of Education or any of the schools in the town. In Japan, a teacher isn't necessarily someone who can teach or even knows the subject that they are supposed to teach. It's someone who has memorized the list of rules that explain what a teacher is and has passed a test in which they spit out those rules (which can be seen by the manner in which they teach as well). |
Brutal, but true and well put. I was thinking more of my own situation, where the teachers actually do speak English rather well. The JTEs at my school would be able to teach in a more communicative style. I've recently introduced them to the idea of input-based classes (extensive reading, etc.) and they found that interesting. I don't know if they'll actually do anything about it though.
Their main idea thus far about improving our English program is that the students should try harder! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
moot point
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 441
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To further Glenski's and the other guy's (with too many spaces in his name to accurately quote here) dialogue, I think these opinions are also what could be a sign of inflation to come in Japan.
Simple economics at stake here, yen is depreciating so goods are going to cost more to bring into the country. "Goods" also relates to "services". That's us. There is also a problem of "demand and supply" (and I use these terms wrongly on purpose) in that there remains a greater demand.
Japan is definitely losing its appeal for overseas applicants with a lower exchange rate (but so are most countries with a currency tagged to the US$). But from my brief look at postings and job adverts recently I think other countries DO appear more appealing than Japan in terms of opportunities for savings and sending cash home. Result will be a lesser interest in coming to Japan, except for those with serious interests in its growing popular culture. More will also leave for greener pastures.
Japanese TEFL jobs will eventually need to respond to fill the void. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alberta605
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Of course on the upside, if you can get the right job or jobs you're doing fine in Japan. Putting together the right kind of part-time jigsaw puzzle may take a little while but when its there you're making good money for easy work with plenty of time to indulge yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
2,000,000.00 KRW = 251,685.63 JPY
South Korea Won Japan Yen
xe.com
When I was getting into the game about four years ago, the basic salary in Japan was much higher than Korea. However, free housing and low taxes in Korea made it the place to go to save money. When I was in Busan, South Korea the tax was 3.3%.
I am shocked to see that the basic salary in Korea is the same as Japan. Actually, with all this talk of salaries declining below 250,000 in Japan, I can't believe that it's an attractive option today.
In conclusion, if you're going to work at a piece of sheet language school, it might as well be in Korea. Take some holidays in Japan to get your cultural fix.
Peace |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
As far as exchange rate affecting employment, I would have to beg to differ. For one thing, what nationalities are mostly hired here? Americans, Brits, Canadians, and Aussies. According to JET's number, Americans are in the majority. Looking at the exchange rate since 1998, we can see that it has waffled between 100 and 130 yen/dollar, but it has mostly stayed closer to 120-125. Not a big sway. I don't know about the other currencies, so I hope people chip in on what they know.
|
That's probably a fair point as far as Americans are concerned. It would appear that the yen's weakening has in fact happened as the US $ has also weakened, so perhaps indeed Americans doing their sums about the value of what they might earn in Japan are not really any more or less put off than a few years ago.
But that's definitely very, very different for people from the UK. Dispo mentioned that above, and I notice Canadians seemed to have suffered in this regard too. I've heard the same story from Aussies I know.
So it looks like Americans are the only potential teachers who are less likely to be put off by the poor exchange rate than they would have been a few years ago. And even then I'm not so sure - surely potential teachers from the US will factor in not just the exchange rate of the yen with the US $, but also other possible destinations. Korea is probably the country that most thinking of Japan also consider, and unlike the yen, the won HAS strengthened enormously against the US $ in recent years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| surely potential teachers from the US will factor in not just the exchange rate of the yen with the US $, but also other possible destinations |
I don't know. There are plenty of people who still think Japan is a land of plenty, where you can make $100 per hour for private lessons, that people will literally throw themselves at your feet for the chance of learning English. Worse, they still come, not for the money, but for the sex and allure of an exotic country (manga and anime freaks and martial arts practitioners included in that "allure"). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
| ... Worse, they still come, not for the money, but for the sex and allure of an exotic country (manga and anime freaks and martial arts practitioners included in that "allure"). |
I'm with you on the anime freaks and the "zen" posers. But I'm not sure why the allure of sex is necessarily a "worse" reason than any other to come to Japan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| surely potential teachers from the US will factor in not just the exchange rate of the yen with the US $, but also other possible destinations |
I don't know. There are plenty of people who still think Japan is a land of plenty, where you can make $100 per hour for private lessons, that people will literally throw themselves at your feet for the chance of learning English. Worse, they still come, not for the money, but for the sex and allure of an exotic country (manga and anime freaks and martial arts practitioners included in that "allure"). |
Sure, there are plenty of factors which still attract certain people to Japan and that will continue to do so even if the exchange rates worsen further. I'd agree that the image of Japan as a land of plenty where money can be made easily persists with some people, but I suspect more people are suspicious of such an image than was previously the case.
Ultimately, I think most people weighing up coming to Japan or anywhere else will sit down and do the key sums - how much will I be earning (in my country's money) if I go to Japan, and how much in (insert other country). Factor in also that starting salaries in Japan are now often less than they were a few years ago, and it's clearly a less attractive idea for a lot of people now compared to then.
Of course, that's not to say this puts evrybody off or anywhere near everybody. Another result of the exchange rate changes is that people who don't want to save here, but just want to experience Japan using money saved elsewhere, will now find that money goes further. Although, I'd imagine these people to be fewer than the ones who want to save when they get here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
