Job Discussion Forums

[dmb]

Ramadam is fast approaching(get it) My students give up food, liquid, cigarettes, sex, etc for a month. Will they give up their mobile phones for a month? Why not? Why is there no mention of it in the Koran?

[ntropy]

Let's be clear. I'm not belittling the difficulty in or the reasons for Ramadan sacrifices. They are both substantial. However, they don't give up anything for a month. They give things up during the DAYLIGHT hours for a month. My students then simply spend the night making up for what they've missed (and try to make up for not sleeping by doing it in class).

[A]

Dear dmb,
To answer your question, there is not a contradiction between modern technology and Islam. Rather, it is the way in which one uses the technology that is of concern to Muslims. A telephone is a means of communication which can be used for various activities, such as keeping in touch with family and friends, doing business, making dinner reservations, etc., all of which are perfectly normal activities in today's world. If there had been mobile phones in the time of the Prophet Muhammed (saas), then I am sure that they would have been used.

The basic principle in Islam is that things are halal (permitted) unless they are specifically forbidden by the Qur'an, or by information that we have from the Seerah (the biography of the Prophet Muhammed, saas). Therefore, there is no need to mention everything by name that is halal. For example, apples, carrots, and cherries are halal, but there are no Qur'anic verses mentioning this due to the principle I have just explained. The same goes for the telephone, computer, and other modern gadgets.

However, things such as lying, cheating and committing adultery are not permitted in Islam, so it is also not allowed to use the telephone or computer to cheat, lie, make appointments with a boyfriend/girlfriend, etc.

We can say the same about grapes, which are halal, but should not be used to make alcohol, which is haram (prohibited). And what about guns: it reminds me of the American saying "Guns don't kill - people do."

If your students are using their mobile phones for inappropriate activities, such as cheating on exams, or if they are bothering you by allowing them to ring in class (which is rude), then they should stop this behavior, not because it is Ramadan, but because it is against their faith to cheat on exams and be disrespectful to you (their teacher).

During Ramadan, Muslims fast from the things you mentioned from sunrise to sunset.
Also it is a time to try to improve one's character and to abandon the things which weaken one's faith.
Many Muslims find that the good habits they establish during Ramadan become permanant and open new doors to goodness.

ntropy,
As a Muslim, the behavior you have described is not the point of fasting and not acceptable in Islam - and I feel ashamed to read what you have written. But there are also many Muslims who take the month seriously, and it is a special time which can make a significant impact on one's life.

Regards,
A

[ntropy]

Nice Post "A",

No need to feel shame. I have seen more honest, sincere Muslims than I have Christians, Buddhists, Shintoists et al. It is simply the human condition that the majority of men are fallible. Religion is an ideal and it hard for simple humans as us to reach it. I can make the same comment for Christians who go to church to make business contacts or show off a nice hat. Or Buddhists and Shintoists who only partake of the church for weddings and funerals. I grew up in a Christian culture, lived in a Buddhist/Shinto culture for 6 years and a Muslim one for 3 years. I deeply respect the many sincere Muslims who think about and display their faith daily. As someone who believes in "god" but not religion, I must say I envy them and those in other faiths who use their faith to enrich their lives.

[Snoopy]

Good God, ntropy, I wonder which country you were working in.

[scot47]

I have been reading texts on Islam for many years but this is the first time I have seen

"the Prophet Muhammed (saas)"

Why do you use "saas" instead of the more conventional "pbuh" ? Are you suggesting that the blessing can only be conveyed using the Arabic words?

For the uninitiated "pbuh" is "peace be upon him" and "saas" is the Arabic equivalent. This formula is used by religious Muslims whenever they say the name of the Seal of All the Prophets, Mohammed.

[Mike_2003]

[A]

Dear Ntropy,
Thank you for your comments. I agree that we are, as humans, prone to making mistakes and that this is quite natural. Overcoming our weaknesses is part of the struggle to become better people, and this is a lifelong struggle with no end. I do believe that fasting in Ramadan is an important tool in obtaining humility and respect for others as it is not easy to abstain from food and drink for several hours each day. Fasting is also a means of feeling with the poor, many of whom cannot obtain the basics of life for themselves and their families. Going deeply into the recommended and required acts of Ramadan, we would see that fasting is not just about one's own personal struggle (although it is important), but is intertwined with giving to the poor and attending to their needs.

Dear Scot47,
Thank you for your concern. No, I did not mean that these words should be said in Arabic only.

For those who are interested, "pbuh" means "peace be upon him," while "saas" is the Arabic equivalent and actually means "may the peace and blessing of God be upon him." Out of respect, Muslims say either of these phrases when mentioning the name of Muhammed, pbuh and saas. In writing English, we use abbreviations to save time and space. I have seen both in print, and it is a matter of personal choice: the important thing is the meaning behind the words.

Finally, with regards to effects of fasting on one's character (positive or negative), this is entirely up to the individual. Here are some statements of the Prophet, pbuh, that illustrate this further:

"Fasting is not abstaining from eating and drinking only, but also from vain speech and foul language. If one of you is being cursed or annoyed, he should say: 'I am fasting, I am fasting.'"

"Allah does not need the fast of one who does not abandon false speech or acting according to his false speech."

"Perhaps a fasting person will get nothing from his fast save hunger, and perhaps the one who stands to pray at night will get nothing from his standing except sleeplessness."

Thank you,
A

[A]

Scot, I see that you have added an explanation of "pbuh" to your post. Thank you for the additional information and sorry for the repeat.

[FGT]

Thank you, A, for your very informative and reasoned explanation.

Can you help me to understand people's adherence to and advocation of Ramazan here in Turkey?

I've heard some people tell me that they fast for reasons of health: that it's for the good of the body (rather than the soul, though they don't make that comparison) which I doubt.

Other believers in Turkey habitually drink beer and/or raki but abstain during the month of Ramazan.

What are your thoughts?

[manonatrain]

well. Christians have fasting
during the EASTER season or LENT... i am lapsed.

I think the people or most, really follow it not just out of per
presure, but as a form of submission. There is one muslim on our
staff who gets all righteous during this time, and wants us all to
kiss his feet. But doesn�t he notice we are fasting too out of
social politeness and he should be kissing our asses.

I see postering as an important survival skill in the ME...for arabs and
non arabs alike. Just read these boards. They are full of conflict.
The more you posture and zip it, the more you fit in.

Well i find it impossible to eat publicly during this period, and feel
incredibly guilty even drinking water in my office, aware of the
social importance...but water is allowable in the Koran, you just wouldnt
know it by the current interpretation of the Koran.

I like Ramadan, keeps the Drunks off the streets.

HUMMMMDAAA LAAA

[scot47]

Well for the pious Muslim there is no element of choice. Fasting in Ramadan is not optional. It is one of the Five Pillars of the Faith. So a Muslim should fast. That is it. Welcome to the world of revealed religion. Some things are not negotiable.

And I think in English "Ramadan" is more common the Turkish form "Ramazan".

BUT as always I am open to correction, being by nature a humble soul !

[Wolf]

[johnslat]

Sorry to report ( really ) that, during all my Ramadans in Saudi Arabia ( 19 of them ), I can't recall encountering too many individuals who performed their " Ramadan duty " in a spiritual way. If anything, most people seemed to become much more short-tempered during the Holy Month and the driving, especially just before sunset, became even more reckless and inconsiderate of others ( as drivers rushed home to break the fast ). Essentially, what most appeared to do during Ramadan was turn night into day and vice versa. Students, having stayed up until dawn, eating, drinking and smoking, would show up for class ( when they actually DID show up, that is ) bleary-eyed and dead tired. Teaching during the Holy Month was pretty much of a joke, as a result. Many people actually GAIN weight in the Kingdom during Ramadan, a fact so prevalent and obvious that the " Arab News " has even run articles about it. Somehow I doubt that this behavior was what the Prophet ( pbuh ) had in mind.
But all this means to me is that Muslims, like adherents of all other religions, are human beings and have considerable difficulty attaining the ideals that religious doctrines often prescribe. How many Christians, for example, put into rigorous practice every day this message of Christ?

" Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. "

Precious few, would be my guess.

" Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. " �Matthew 7:14
Regards,
John

[MindTraveller]

Once disillusioned with Catholicism, I started to look at all religions from a psychological view.

First, having a lunar month of 28 days for trying to not .....(whatever bad habits you have acquired) while trying very hard to strengthen your good habits fits in with modern psychology: to establish a 'habit' it takes about 28 days and then the body/mind becomes adjusted to the new habit. Thus during Ramadan, Muslims are to practice patience, generosity, kindness, etc. while abstaining from negative habits such as smoking, being impatient, unkind, etc.

Today I just finished a book that is the third in a series and was so shocked to see it here on sale in Oman: Desert Royal by Jean Sasson. It's the third book about a "Princess" (title of first book) of Saudi Arabia.

Well, what it says about Islam, Ramadan, etc. in Saudi Arabia is pretty darn interesting. In it, one man says he thinks Saudi may go the way of Afganistan - fall into the hands of the Muslim fundamentalists because the House of Saud refuses to make changes for democracy..... It's a fast read, as were the other two books. Shocking and sad about how men in Saudi and how many Muslim men are brought up and encouraged to act towards women.

As for fasting during Lent, as a child I gave up thumb-sucking and it worked! After 40 days or so without it, it just didn't taste good anymore. And 'fasting' for Catholics was not eating meat on Fridays. Since Rome is the head of Catholicism, and surrounded by water, I figured making everyone eat fish on Fridays was an economic device by Rome to keep the markets open for their fish in Europe.

Here in Arabia, I figure not drinking water or eating food during the day was a very important way of conserving limited supplies of both before oil wealth. Despite many flaws in Arabic society, the importance of family, and the very social nature of Arabs is admirable.

As I once wrote, put an Arabic village next to an American small town, and after a while, once you get over the outer differences, you'd see the two are much more similar than different. Plus Arabs love their pick-up trucks (mostly Toyotas) as much as Texans and other USA people!

I just wish more Muslims would really follow Islam, especially the "compassionate'" part that is also in Buddhism. That and tolerance..... I feel the same way towards Christians too.....Buddhists, etc.