Job Discussion Forums

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Scot47. That's a fantastic idea. You've just given me a good reason to have children. I feel like my world has opened up. Thanks.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I do feel Chinese, like Japanese, hold in their feelings. In my words, their feelings are all "bottled up".
It's a face thing. In public, always smile, smile, smile, never show one's true emotions. Emotions are reserved for those who can afford to throw tantrums - big bosses. Small potatoes just don't have the right to act out their genuine feelings.
This leads to a lot of false sentimentality - look at these kitsch weddings, white gowns and all, and listen to their first quarrels right after the wedding night!
The only emotions they are allowed are related to their nation or country; they feel "proud", and "happy" because just qabout everybody must be proud and happy.
In their relationships with children they are relatively easy-going, sometimes even too easy-going, bordering on childishness.
But in relationships with adult strangers there is little natural, spontaneous friendliness.
It's all well-rehearsed etiquette, but not more than that. Fall out of their favour, and you can see their true "feelings".

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Do eskimos really have more words for snow? Can a non-eskimo appreciate snow in the same way if he doesn't have the words? If the non-eskimo and the eskimo knew the same words, would the words still communicate the same thing if the non-eskimo didn't have the same life experience?

If I married a Chinese girl with perfect English, there is still no way I could communicate the feeling at being at the quiet cottage at the lake, water lapping against the shore, brewski in one hand, after the pleasure of mowing the lawn, barbecue starting, summer breeze under the trees, not really listening to the baseball game on the radio in the background, half read book on the ground next to me. Watching the moon rise over the hills on the opposite side of the lake, so bright that it looks like the hilltop is on fire.

(Why am I here again? Is Sapporo /Hokkaido as beautiful as I think it can be?)

What is the Chinese equivalent experience? What are the deep experiences to her that I can not appreciate, even though I think I do? Her knowing I can't appreciate her experience, does she just close that part of herself off to me? Do I lose forever a valuable chance to know know a vital part of her, of what makes her her?

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

To me those sound like happy memories, Arioch. In my experience, anyone who isn't me isn't likely to understand my happy memories.

If I wanted to understand someone better, I'd share happy memories with them. You could join all the German tourists and rent a cottage in Nova Scotia for a week or whatever in the summer, you know. Bring the wife and show her what you mean. Very Happy

My romantic, starry eyed veiw of love had always held that the memories that people share would end up greater than those spent apart.

Culture and language getting in the way? Bullocks, I say. (to the general idea, not to anyone here in particular.) What you do learn to appriciate is obviously more valuable than what you don't. In a few years in my second adopted home, I leanred enough to be able to share and appiricate a few cultural activities with firends. Had I spent my lifetime there with someone I loved, I'm sure I would have had a rich and rewarding life.

Go back and read the Shelly poem I posted on the "Real Life ESL Cafe Folks" thread (which comes from an era and culture that no longer exist, by the way.) I believe that love - real love - tempered with a bit of wisdom, understanding, and patience would seriously kick culture and language's butt.

Just a thought, and not a coherent one at that.

Dave Kessel · Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Posts: 49

It depends on so many factors- language being just one of them.

1) How much in love are you?
2) How attractive is the other person.
3) Do you have enough money to live in that person's culture
4) Are you good at languages yourself?
5) Do you have enough money period.
6) Are you willing to commit yourself to a very intercultural lifestyle.

If you are a conservative type- like you want your marriage/love affair to be traditional and follow the rules of your culture, then you better choose someone from your own background.

If you are an adventurous type and you like things that are different, then it will not matter.

The most important thing is how strong your love is and how sexy Smile

is the other person.

psychedelic · Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 167 Location: China

Roger,
Good posting! "But...........wall." That sounds like South Korea!

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

The question has been asked: what is the Chinese equivalent to nostalgic and romantic feelings that we Westerners crave - watching the sunset, experiencing Christmas etc.?
A good question. I venture to offer:
Dining the Chinese way.
Yes, it's noisy, and you better not wear your Sunday's best, - but it's an extremely socialising occasion, with people sharing all the foods from common vessels and containers. Not that I endorse it - I am against dipping my chopsticks into the broth where other chopsticks have been dipped into.
But ask a Chinese, and they would all say: Eating in a Chinese restaurant with friends is their idea of what's best.
Another thing might be Spring festival holidays, when the whole family can, after almost one year, find the time to gather under one roof.
This used to be a great event at least as momentous for the CHinese as our New Year or CHristmas.

I personally don't like CHinese banquets too much - bosses and some of my colleagues tend to loosen up too much! And I don't really enjoy the crunch during Spring festival holidays - but every Chinese person I know gets excited about these two elements of their national culture!

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

In high school, part of college, drinking too much was a way of bonding. And that's true here in China also. As someone who at least tries to attempt to be a christian once in a while, drinking becomes a dilemma.

I don't mind having five or six beers. Drinking with more "common" people here can be a good memory. I like going to the local place, maybe with five coworkers, eating "xiao chi" small foods, and drinking decent 2 kuai ( 25 cents) beer.

I hate drinking with the up and coming young punks who are so swarmy, and so how you will be good friends.

But what are the happy memories for the women in other countries? Doing needle point and gossiping??? Very Happy

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"Scot47. That's a fantastic idea. You've just given me a good reason to have children. I feel like my world has opened up. Thanks."

Does one need a "reason" for having children ? I thought that we were admonished in the Good Book to "go forth, be fruitful and multiply" ?

Choosing NOT to have children is the perverse decision !

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

The urge to reproduce is basic. If you deny that, you are denying Nature (or God, or whatever you call it.)

Human beings are designed to have children. Maybe I should tell you about the Birds and the Bees ?

johnslat · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:26 pm Post subject: Mother Nature

Dear scot47,
Got to disagree with you on this one. True - the " urge to reproduce " ( or at least the urge to enage in activity that often leads to reproducing ) is an instinctive one. But that, in and of itself, doesn't necessarily make it " good " or " right " for every individual. Are you saying, then, that you haven't known people who have made/would make absolutely terrible parents? I cetainly have. Not that I'm including denise in that category; I'm just using an extreme example to make a point. Yes, human beings are designed to have children, but I have nipples, too, and, as a man I doubt I'll find much use for them. Are humans who ( thanks to Mother Nature ) are unable to have children therefore less " worthy " than those who do? Or those who choose not to have them? Are all gays and lesbians who ( usually ) don't have children then less than human?
Regards,
John
P.S. And I suppose that all Roman Catolic priests and nuns are therefore denying " Nature ( or God, or whatever you call it )" .

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Well johnslat

I stick to my guns. Wouldn't the world be boring if we all had the same opinion !

Theologically my main man is Martin Luther and, like him, I am not happy with the idea of a celibate clergy.

Having children is the most important thing that I have ever done. I cannot speak for others.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:10 pm Post subject:

Dear scot47,
Ah, you wouldn't be the scot47 I've come to know and respect ( admittedly at long-distance ) if you didn't " stick to your guns " ( but let's recall that the National Rifle Association does that, too ). Childless I and childful you can agree to disagree. I must say I'm glad to hear Mr. Luther's your man, though - I had a suspicion it might be Mr. Calvin. One little quibble, if you will. You wrote:

" Having children is the most important thing that I have ever done. "

Well, it's certainly a necessary first step, but I'd claim that bringing those kids up to be good, decent human beings is the most important thing you've ever done/will do.
Regards,
John