Job Discussion Forums

[ChrisInCanada]

It seems only when someone experiences a bad school do they come here, or any forum for that matter, to write about it. Where are all the positive posts about schools?

Posts like "I had an amazing time at so and so language center, I highly recommend it to any teachers seeking employment" and
"<insert school> is the best school I've ever worked for, email me for highlights and pictures!"

I'm having an extremely difficult time finding a school I may enjoy working at because every time I think I've found one, I do some research on it and a bunch of negative posts from dissatified teachers show up.

This is what I'm looking for in a school...

The school is located in a warm climate preferably by the ocean. Zhuhai, Zhongshan, Shanghai are a few cities I'm leaning towards, but I am open to all cities found in the warmer climates. (A Canadian who hates the cold, imagine that!)

The school is well established and has been operating for several years

The school building and its grounds are nice and well maintained

The staff and administration are professional, nice, helpful and organized

This would be my first teaching job, so I would prefer a school with a good curriculum already in place and maybe a Chinese teacher to work with.

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Is this asking WAY to much from a school in China? Should I just pick the first language mill or recruiter I see on Dave's ESL cafe? I really want to experience China, but all this negative feedback from schools is very discouraging

Please, if you have worked for or are currently working for a great school, tell me here in this thread and give an email address so that I may send in my resume... Beers on me when I get there!

Lastly, is there a good website with detailed lists of the many schools in china giving them ratings, positive and negative feedback etc?

Thank you for your time
Chris in Canada

[milkweedma]

Try www.anesl.com www.bucklandgroup.org www.chinatefl.com

I dunno if they are good or bad because I havent used them yet.

A more realistic approach is to talk to a FT at the school you are introduced to or you could be burnt. Also do your homework first such as ask lots of questions about prep time, pay, accom.

[eslstudies]

[clark.w.griswald]

[Steppenwolf]

The reason why we have only complaints and (never? Rarely?) positive threads has to do with the kind of TEFlers attracted to China.

Some are perpetually on confrontation with the establishment; some are permanent malcontents, and some simply don't see the rosy colours in an admittedly polluted atmosphere. Yet others can't afford to come here without getting their travel expenses repaid.

I assure you, with a philosophical mind and a lot of goodwill you can do nicely here. Certain schools never get mentioned here - maybe it's because they have wed the right teachers.'

As soon as money becomes a vital component of your remunerations package, you will start comparing and feeling frustrated, and your peace of mind will be gone!

Perhaps this is why we never have contributions from members of the Peace COrps; they work for free, but they seem to get something out of their experience. If you don't believe me, get a copy of RIVER TOWN - a great read!

[ChrisInCanada]

Wow, thank you all for your informative posts and links. It's really reassuring.

My main reason to move to China is because I currently live in an area of the world that has an extremely high number of Chinese tourists and residence (Vancouver BC Canada) and my career choice when I return will be highly community orientated, so having the experience of living in China will prove invaluable.

I'm not going there to make money. I could care less whether I make 1 yuan or 10,000 yuan as long as I have an decent place to live in a nice warm city where I have the opportunity to meet and work with the Chinese. I can think of nothing better than offering my expertise in English (relative to the Chinese but certainly not here)

And to comment on Eslstudies
"Why would the school need you at all? Wouldn't employing a local English teacher who knows how to handle the students be a much more sensible and economical option for the school "

I don't know, why don't you ask the first school that hired you?

[eslstudies]

[clark.w.griswald]

[vikdk]

[Steppenwolf]

To the truly open-minded, adaptable, flexible newbies out there, I recommend you read RIVER TOWN by one Peter Hessler who spent two years teaching in a 300'000 resident town on the Yangtse in Sichuan, a backwater then, and a backwater even now. P.H. wrote a truly moving book about his own metamorphosis from a young, idealistic Peace Corps member to an experienced China hand that had not become cynical in the two years he spent there.
Although the minimum salary for FTs is supposedly set at 2200 (some say 2500) yuan, P.H. and other U.S. American teachers worked for a mere 1000 a month, and they were laughed at by locals for making so little.
Draw your own conclusions; mine is that China needs, indeed deserves, more people like that (though many training centres and even pujblic institutions don't).
Usually your choice of location decides on what kinds of satisfaction and dissatisfaction you are letting yourself in; the big cities don't offer much to explore in the way of Chinese traditions and lifestyles, and people there are sophisticated, yet rude and selfish; go to an insignificant locale no Chiense wants to go, and you experience a whole different kind of China. And then, salary and related issues take a backseat! At least for some...

[clark.w.griswald]

It is probably pertinent to warn that not all �volunteer� programs are really what they may be made out to be. I think if one is going to go that route then be sure to stick with well known charities as you don�t want to end up working a standard job on a volunteer�s wages. I would recommend only dealing with organizations that you are familiar with back home and that you can check the charitable status of with your own government before making a commitment.

Aside from that though I am not sure that how much you earn has much to do with whether you enjoy your time here in China. Someone working in a quiet school in rural China on RMB4,000 a month can enjoy their time here just as much as someone in Shanghai earning RMB8,000 a month. It is all about ensuring that you are where you want to be (city or country) and that you have the right attitude as far as accepting and even enjoying the differences that come with living in a foreign country. This does not mean accepting every difficulty thrown at you as being OK, but instead what I mean is taking a step back when you meet those difficulties to decide whether there is a legitimate reason for those difficulties.

So as others have said, ensure that your expectations are consistent with what they should be, and the best way to determine this is to research the life by reading about the experiences of others.

[vikdk]

Anybody going through this thread needs to be in possession of a well functioning common sense filter � after all when a thread starts with a query concerning good schools and recruiters and ends with a discussion on volunteer work with the threads only named organization being the Peace Corps, then after reading this, any thinking person, can pretty much guess the state of the Chinese ESL teaching situation.
No I'm afraid that the social idealists and those who are truly interested in the job of teaching are swamped out in this profession by those who taken up the China FT option so that they can earn their money to sample a life of living and working overseas - and since China is probably the easiest place in world to do this - with regard to the number of jobs offered - the lack of qualifications needed - and the ease by which one can obtain working permission � then it follows that the FT job now attracts, what seems to be, an awful lot of young (and quite a few old) folk out here � who are mostly unqualified as teachers and of course have very little teaching experience.
And is this usually a watching the natives on the more remote reaches of the Yangtze type occupation � well judge for yourselves after reading this exert from the web-page of a typical type of mill (private language school) franchise operation called Astons �

[vikdk]

As a postscript to my last post - that Aston site has suddenly come back up - take a look here, and pay perticular attention to the articles about English corners (usually an unpaid chore for the FT) in fast-food joints around China, plus an array of talent shows, English competitions etc etc (looks like they like to put you up before a crowd at this joint) -
www.astonenglish.cn/e/default.asp
It's a hilarious site - and one which really brings up that question - does finding a good school in China mean that I'm going to be a teacher or a performing monkey

[NathanRahl]

I missed this one because of my long hiatus from the board, it's hilrious. The way Step and Clark try to make those who complain in some way about china to be villains.

There is another posibility that everyone missed, likely in their obvious fear of being critisized by Clark and Step, who say you should not critisize china or they will critisize you. Hmm, interesting paradox.

Anyhow, the one possibility that everyone missed is that, maybe, just maybe, the reason why there are so few threads extolling the virtues of working here is because, there are very few. Yes, this is quite, quite possible. Living here and playing here are a different matter entirely.

Cheers to all the pin heads who do what they say others should not do, and shame on the folks who don't call them on it nearly enough to shut them up.

[nickpellatt]

For the OP, you may wish to consider Hainan for its climate....

Im afraid I cant offer any contacts or names to help you, but if anyone is advertising here on Dave's for a teacher, then I can certainly confirm the climate is likely to be favourable..