Job Discussion Forums

Prof.Gringo · Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

From students and my own observations go to:
Anglo if you want to learn grammar (and not be able to speak)
Berlitz if you want to spend all your money
Wall Street if you want to forget that you paid for the course
Ingles Individual if you can't afford Wall Street
Harmon Hall if you want to be in a large class with a Mexican teacher
Interlingua if you don't want to learn anything
Quick Learning if you want to quit learning

mapache · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 202 Location: Villahermosa

I'm not all that impressed with HH. I tutor some of their students and the books are so 1990's - talk of "yuppies". Some of the reading is blatantly anti-American and racist which not the mission of a reputable language school - "native Americans are still fighting the white men" and American junk food is an evil plot to malnourish the indigenous in Mexico (as if the indigenous could afford it in their social and economic place in Mexican society). Some of the audio is done by Mexicans with heavy accents. Making teachers work three weeks free is a scam and unnecessary.

Back to the origin of this thread, the Pacific Ocean is three hours from Tuxtla Guiterrez-a quaint fishing village called Puerto Arista. There is also a beautiful quiet estuary called Boca de Cielo. Both of these are great for a week end getaway.

PlayadelSoul · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 346 Location: Playa del Carmen

I don't know where to start.

Yes, the HH books are a little outdated. They are only a tool to be used in the classroom, however. In those instances where the material is not current, we use other readings that are more up to date. In any event, they are going to be changed soon.

Class size is limited to 15 which I don't think would be considered large by most people on this forum.

Mexican law only permits 10% of a company to be staffed by foreigners, as everyone knows. Mexican teachers that work for me are well trained and proficient in English. In fact, their knowledge of grammar sometimes exceeds that of some of the native speakers I have run across.

The idea that teachers work 1 month for free is a myth. Prospective teachers are trained for 3 weeks in the methodology and work next to an established teacher in class for an entire course. They are not paid because the teacher who is teaching the class is the one that is working (and being paid). The trainee is learning. Although not common in the US, it is a very common practice in Mexico. It actually helps the prospective employee see if he/she suited for this kind of work.

The method uses an "English only" approach. After the first 15 minutes of course 1, Spanish is discouraged.

OK, there is my HH primer. Hope it clears up some misconceptions.
Wink

gordogringo · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 159 Location: Tijuana

As for making anyone work for even a minute unpaid, good for you if you can do it. I can't and never will. I allow no staff member to work off the clock.If I hold them over it is paid overtime even if they are salaried. Just helps me sleep better.
Just because unpaid training is a custom in Mexico does not mean it can and should be applied to gringo staff.Like your practice of only hiring 10% foreign staff it is done because either they work cheap or your company is not willing to pay a competent attorney to get that nonsense waived.Probably a combination of both. I have always operated on the belief that quality has to be at the forefront of everything and the students
will come based on that. So far so good but the day I have to bring in non-native speakers to teach the doors close.If I cannot provide quality teachers I would rather not do it at all.

PlayadelSoul · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 346 Location: Playa del Carmen

So, essentially, you are telling your students that they will be given the best education possible solely based on the birthplace of your teachers. When they finish, their English will be of the highest level but, unfortunately, not good enough to teach. Contradiction, anyone?

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Note that gordo says "I have to bring in non-native speakers"... as in he HAS to hire them because he has to hire teachers for a low wage...

I don't believe he would not hire an excellent teacher because they are non-native - or at least, I would hope not! Shocked

Samantha · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera

It seems pretty clear from what he wrote that he thinks native English speakers are better "quality" teachers, based on the fact that they are non-Mexican. As someone pointed out earlier, the Mexican English teachers often times have a better grasp of grammar rules and can explain the points in Spanish to a beginner class, if stuck. And again his cavalier approach to laws. Those Immigration laws are put in place for a reason and I can tell you that they are strictly enforced in the top quality private schools in my area. Often I have been the only one or one of two foreign teachers, myself in the primary and another in the highschool. These schools have good Mexican teachers and several schools have ZERO native English speaking teachers. This is not for lack of applications, certainly.

Gordogringo wrote:

mapache · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 202 Location: Villahermosa

Read the posts again - can you pick up the attitude from the HH guy regarding foreign teachers? Many English school owners here would hire no foreigners if they could get away with is. To these owners, we are a necessary evil to keep up with their competition. One school owner in Tuxtla bad-mouths the foreign teachers to the Mexican teachers, stupidly believing her remarks do not get back to the foreigners. Another owner in Tuxtla does not pay his teachers on time, bounces paychecks and then rants about foreigners when they quit.

PlayadelSoul · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 346 Location: Playa del Carmen

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

gordogringo · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 159 Location: Tijuana

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

gordogringo · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 159 Location: Tijuana

On the level that people are paying good money for it, absolutely. Numbers can't lie. There will be plenty of non natives teaching but they are in government run schools simply passing the time. Making little if any useful contribution. The students get what they pay for. In Taiwan they are going to 100% native even in the government schools for English and offering larger salaries to compensate. China will probably follow suit. Japan has been pretty close to 100% for awhile.It is really all about the money and the obsession that Mexico has with getting anything for a few pesos less.