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scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

John got it right. Sometimes it puzzles me that we expats in the Islamic world expect our muslim hosts to live up to their religious and spiritual commandments when we fall short of any moral standards ourselves.

I have no concordance here or I would locate the quote about the mote in your own eye while you worry about the speck in your brother's !

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Interesting insight, johnslat. I've fasted for 11 years (four as a teacher.) The spirit of the time is one of restraint, purifcation and reflection. Fasting (in its purest and most effective form) is more than abstaining from food, just like meditaiton is more than sitting quietly somewhere.

johnslat · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:58 pm Post subject: I'm half-fast

Dear Wolf,
Well, I pretty much " fast " every day of the year. By that I mean that I have only a cup of coffee for breakfast ( and that's at 4 am ) and then do not eat my one meal a day until ( usually ) about 7 pm. In between, I drink no fluids and eat nothing. BUT - I DO smoke although - go ahead and laugh, but it's true - I don't inhale.
No, I don't think " God " would ask the impossible - but what ALL the major religions ask, the ideal way of living, sure ain't easy. I've always liked G.K. Chesterton's remark:
" Christianity ( or, fill in any other religion ) hasn't failed; it's just never been tried."
Regards,
John
P.S. scot47 - you don't need a concordance; the Net is a wonderful resource:
The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2000.
The Gospel according to
St. Luke

" And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. "
Mt. 7.1-5

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

manonatrain · Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 88

�must be said again, the young and wise JohnSlatery has it
correct.

I was jus�bitchin� a little ...about my coworker...who is in fact my bitchy friend who reads these boards regularly.

I like fasting, but with fluids like water and small quantities of natural
juice...this is the desert and my skin is white.... I don�t want to throw
my body into Insulin shock.

By the way, does anyone have the statistics on how many DIABETICS are in Oman or the GULF ? Locals call it �sugar in the blood�...
I believe his Majesty Sultan Qaboos sufers from this, not 100 % certian, but that
is the word in the SANDS.

Eating DATES, high in sugar,
fasting without water or juice...throws your blood sugar outta wack...
driving like a madman at sunset and crashing your car...a result of
low blood sugar and insulin.

health and purification are hardly related to starvation.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

While thinking about Ramadan in the Muslim World, let us think about how Christmas is celebrated in much of the "Post-christian" West.

It has become a consumerist orgy where people have forgotten even the most basic teachings of the Faith of our Fathers.

And Easter has degenerated into a time when you give children chocolate eggs.

Next time we want to curse the hypocrisy of the Saudis or the Kuwaitis during Ramadan let us remember what our own countries are like late in December !

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

Isn't consumerism the religion in the west?

Albulbul · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 364

Well consumerism is pretty strong in Saudi Arabia too !

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

johnslat · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:44 pm Post subject:

Well, if you have a medical reason, you don't HAVE to fast ( or appear to ). Problem is - there's so much social pressure on Saudis to at least appear to be fasting that even sick people will often do it, risking their health even further, or even their lives. And yup, there's certainly a lot of hypocrisy connected with religion everywhere; however, my candidate for the Gold Medal in that particular area has got to be the Kingdom. In how many other places is religion made so very much of? And when strict adherence to religious dictates is such a major item in the culture, then I'd say you're going to find greater numbers of people conforming on the surface but backsliding in private.
Regards,
John

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

In retrospect and sobriety, leeroy changed his mind about that post...

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

johnslat · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:32 am Post subject: Holy Moly

Dear leeroy,

" The myth of "holiness" in Saudi is, in fact, nothing more than a complete lie "

Hmm, well, besides being a bit redundant ( a myth is pretty much a lie - or at least a fantasy ), I'd say you've gone overboard there. There's true " holiness " in Saudi Arabia, just as I'm sure there is in every other land. And I suspect that the percentage of " holy people " there is, like the percentage of jerks, just about the same everywhere. But BECAUSE religion is so public, so prominent, so pervasive in the Kingdom, BECAUSE its prohibitions and practices are so totally woven into the social fabic, then any hypocrisy becomes - or at least seems - much more flagrant by contrast. As every grammar teacher knows ( or should ), context is everything.
Regards,
John

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Leeroy seems to have pulled her posting here after regretting something !
I wonder what.
And why.

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

her?