Job Discussion Forums

[sidjameson]

I want to know other people's experience. To see if what I have experienced is due to the country I have worked in (Japan), chance, or the nature of the business. Hmmm or to be fair my own failings as a teacher.

I have taught in almost every regular type of job in Japan. Here has been my experience so far:

Language school: mostly providing conversation practise.
Business English: mostly providing conversation practise.
Juniour High school: mostly providingd conversation practise.
Private classes: mostly providing conversation practise.
High school: mostly providing conversation practise.
Part time university: mostly providing conversation practise.
Full time university: mostly providing conversation practise. Though to be fair I now also teach some writing classes and culture studies.

Of course while providing conversation practise I do correct the students mistakes, introduce new vocab and refresh a students understanding of grammar............but I have "taught" very little.

I am challenged to help the students use English in a fun and meaningful way, but I don't feel that I have taught English in the same way that say a history teacher teaches his subject. I have NEVER taught a grammar point to students who would not have come across it before.

Just to add; I am sure I have my failings, but I got each of the above jobs from being recomended as a really good teacher. The irony being that I don't even think I am. What I am is a fairly nice guy who is fun in the classroom and quite imaginitive when it comes to ideas for role playing etc.

I feel that this sums up the teaching profession in Japan for 95% of the people who work here. (I stand to be corrected) So what about other countries around the world?

How much have you taught and how much have you been like me; a glorified host while the students practised their English?

[Kramer]

I have not actually taught EFL yet. But a friend in South Korea told me that in his langauge school he was paid to be a "human tape recorder." It was not until he later taught at a Korean university that he actually taught writing skills. He liked that experience more but I am not sure if it was because of the deeper level of teaching or 4 months vacation and fewer weekly hours

Kramer

[laura1d]

Hello,

When I worked in China and Thailand I also mainly taught 'conversation'. I moved to Spain a year and a half ago and since then have been 'teaching' English properly. My students take Cambridge University exams (YLE / KET / PET / FCE and CAE). I have huge amounts of grammar to trawl through, teach and practise in order to prepare the students for the exams. I also teach writing, reading, listening and speaking skills.

It is very 'full on' as there is a lot to teach in a short space of time (I see the students for 3 hours a week).

In some ways I miss the 'conversation' classes as you are able to to use your imagination much more. The teaching here is far more rewarding however.

As an example, this week I have been teaching Reported questions / Passive Voice / Irregular comparatives (incl as...as) / 2nd Conditional / Prepositions of time (all to different groups!).

I break it down so we do one 'book' class, one 'skills' class (writing, reading or listening) and one 'grammar' class. This works most of the time but occasionally I have to teach more than one weekly grammar class to fit it all in.

Laura

[sidjameson]

But did you really teach it Laura?
I have given lessons on all those points, but I didn't teach it as such as I said, "remember this...the 2nd conditional" gave an example, got them to practise it then got them to use it.

After all.........how many teachers could teach something like the 2nd or 3rd conditional without using the students native tongue? And most TEFLers don't have that level of language ability.

[laura1d]

Hi,

Granted, as you get to the higher levels they have been exposed tomost of the points previously to some point, but to some extent yes, I am teaching it - some of the points are totally new to them and I show them the form / meaning and usage. This is coupled with lots of practical 'laura made' situations' in order to give them chance to use it.

I am not saying that I teach everything from scratch - and appreciate your point.

Laura

[Jizzo T. Clown]

In my note-taking skills class, I teach mostly from a book (but I also use online lectures), so there's actually quite a bit of content that goes with it. It's less my teaching it to them than it is me helping them to understand what it is they're learning.

[Jetgirly]

The idea that "teaching" is strictly or primarily standing at the blackboard and delivering a lecture while students take notes is totally antiquated. All of the things that you're doing can be considered teaching.

[coffeedrinker]

I think what people mean by "teach" varies - and few good efl teachers will lecture like university professors at home.

You can definitely "teach" structures without speaking the students' language though, and ideas and ways of doing this are what a good tefl course includes, among other things (of course a four week course won't make you an expert but can focus on things like the discovery method or giving logical examples).

I have definintely "taught" things in contrast to just practicing speaking. I don't think teaching implies giving a lesson and then students "know forever" or something...but it means giving a context, raising student awareness about some structure or vocabulary, checking that they understand it, having them practice it and returning to it later. I think this also involves creativity.

It's actually really frustrating to me when students (or local teachers) assume I just talk...esl instructors in English-speaking countries often teach multi-lingual groups without speaking all the languages - and I think it's clear they are teaching. There may be situations where native speakears abroad are just given the role of inspiring conversation, but that by no means implies others can't teach other things.

[John Hall]

Generally speaking, there are two aspects to TEFL: imparting information about English, and development of English-language skills. I think that most good TEFLers do more of the skills development of their students, than "telling them or showing them new things in English."

Learning a language is like riding a bike. You can attend lectures about bike-riding, but that doesn't mean that you are going to be able to ride a bike after the lectures. You have to get on the bike and try it yourself. It's through practice that you learn how to do it.

Sidjameson, you've been doing what a parent does who teaches his or her child to ride a bike. Nothing wrong with that at all. Somebody's got to hold the handlebars for the child in the beginning. In the case of history classes, there is no skill to develop, only information to learn. Students don't "do" history, but they have to "do" English.

[harmonious]

Hello all:

Interesting topic with some interesting thoughts.

I like what coffedrinker has said about teaching and what teaching is. I also agree with jetgirly's post.

Responding to sid, however, I feel that your experience is largely a result of teaching in Japan. Unlike most people, I taught in Japan after already getting an MA and having taught in the states in situations where you had to get results and meet standards of competence or you would quickly lose your job. You see, when teaching in a country where the language of use is the language you teach -English- the usefulness of what you do in class becomes very obvious very quickly. This is especially the case for refugees and immigrants who have to achieve functionality for their family's survival.

Having entered Language schools in Japan and taught in the same contexts as sid described, I soon discovered that actually teaching the language was secondary to having fun and being entertaining. The majority of students and educators I encountered, furthermore, were unable to distinguish between a qualified teacher who actually knows what works to get results and someone fresh out of college who is very talkative and enthusiastic. It seems, actually, that this is the most desired teacher in most of these contexts: a person who is young, smiles a lot, talks a lot, is very interested in Japanese culture, and is very interesting in talking about their own culture.

I think one of the main reasons for this is that the majority of the students in question never really use English except when they go on vacation -and even then they don't really have to! Therefore, they have no real way of seeing what is helpful to their learning or not and the above stereotype remains the ideal. Let's face it, many of the eikaiwa people view English learning as a hobby on par with shopping and hobbies are supposed to be fun.

This is not to say that I did not enjoy my two years in Japan, or that the above applies to every teaching situation. I did encounter, in fact, some very innovative and inspiring teachers in some of the highschools -believe it or not. Another factor to consider is the class system in terms of schools there. In Japan, there are schools for the super smart (according to test scores), the very smart, the smart, the not so smart, the dumb, and the dumbest. I taught in one highschool that ranked as serving the smart/very smart category and they did have some awareness of what a quality teacher is. The university I taught for could care less what you did and the students had a similar attitude. I still have a vague notion of entering a good university there some day in the hopes of doing some teaching with students who are motivated to learn from a level that exceeds hobby or the company incentive program in an environment where 60+ students are not expected to succeed at conversation (they don't really expect success, they just want to show that they did it like checking off a shopping list regardless of the actual value of what was done.)

Anyway. I'm sure I've ranted enough But sid, try teaching in the states or even in the middle east, or at a real university.

good luck

[denise]

I agree with jetgirly and John Hall. And probably a few others, also...

I don't see why "teaching" has to mean imparting knowledge that a) the students have never been exposed to before and b) they will remember and use instantly, especially not teaching languages. You can't just memorize facts the way you can memorize, for example, historical dates (and even learning history that way would be boring!!! no thought or analysis involved...)

I do think I have actually taught. I certainly won't go so far as to say that everything I have told my students has sunk in and that they all found all of it valuable, but I have presented new (or new-ish) structures with examples, introduced new learning strategies and skills, etc. I put time and effort into planning meaningful lessons, finding relevant topics and presenting them in appropriate ways, etc., and I can only hope that that effort pays off.

I really don't like teaching conversation classes because I don't like the line of thinking that goes into them: just get any ol' native speaker to talk at or to the students.

d

[Big Tall American]

[JosephP]

[Jizzo T. Clown]

[coffeedrinker]

Umm....I think the point was that a certain personality is what many employers in Japan look for. I hardly think the point of that post was to say that personality is ideal or not. And even if it is not ideal in a context like that one...there are other contexts for teaching such as ... the word outside Japan.

I found the original topic very interesting and am curious to hear other people's opinions.