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ghostrider
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147
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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Japanese laptops, payment options |
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I was wondering, is there a problem using the Japanese keyboard in the English version of XP or OS X? I didn't see any mentions of this in the laptop related threads here, just suggestions about buying one with an English keyboard. I don't see the advantage to that since the Japanese keyboard has both roman characters and Japanese, so maybe I'm missing something.
I was looking for payment options, aside from direct purchase, on the Japanese Sony and Apple sites, but couldn't find anything. For anyone who has had experience buying from either of them, do they offer finance or credit options like they do in the US? I can't afford to buy one at full price at the moment.
Also, most of the comments in the laptop threads recommend MacBooks. I've narrowed it down between a MacBook and a Sony VAIO C. Are MacBooks perceived more positively in Japan than the US? |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Japanese laptops, payment options |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
| I was wondering, is there a problem using the Japanese keyboard in the English version of XP or OS X? I didn't see any mentions of this in the laptop related threads here, just suggestions about buying one with an English keyboard. I don't see the advantage to that since the Japanese keyboard has both roman characters and Japanese, so maybe I'm missing something. |
The main problem is layout. If you're a peck-and-search typist then yeah, it makes no difference. But if you touch-type, and are used to keys being in certain places, it's a pain in the ass. For instance, the apostrophe on a US keyboard is directly to the left of the ENTER key, whereas on the Japanese keyboard it's located above the number 7, thus ALSO requiring you to press SHIFT to use it. (In Japan they don't use apostrophes as much as we do...) That's just one example, but there are a number of others too -- enough to make it annoying. It's doubly annoying when you have to go back and forth between English and Japanese keyboards every day from work to home.
| ghostrider wrote: |
I was looking for payment options, aside from direct purchase, on the Japanese Sony and Apple sites, but couldn't find anything. For anyone who has had experience buying from either of them, do they offer finance or credit options like they do in the US? I can't afford to buy one at full price at the moment. |
Store credit is the same as any other kind of credit. Don't hold your breath in Japan. Unless you have a Japanese spouse or co-signer, you will likely be hard up financing a computer here. In stores they will ask you (when paying by credit card) how many payments do you want to make -- that's one way of financing. But it was explained to me once (by store staff) that it must be a Japanese credit card for starters, and if it's a Saison card, you can only split the payment once. All other cards, I THINK it was up to 6 times or something like that. I didn't pay much attention because I knew I wasn't eligible, nor would I be anytime in the near future. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Japanese laptops, payment options |
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| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| For instance, the apostrophe on a US keyboard is directly to the left of the ENTER key, whereas on the Japanese keyboard it's located above the number 7, thus ALSO requiring you to press SHIFT to use it. |
Yeah, I didn't like that at all about the Japanese keyboard when I used one. Even if they had to move it, it seems like an awful place to put it. But, I figured if I used it long enough, I'd get used to it.
| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| It's doubly annoying when you have to go back and forth between English and Japanese keyboards every day from work to home. |
Well, if I have a Japanese laptop, I won't have to worry about switching back and forth.
My concern is learning and using Japanese. Maybe I need to have more patience or I'm not doing something right, but using an English keyboard to type Japanese using XP's Japanese language input program is a pain in the ass for me. But that damn apostrophe being in such an awful spot.
| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| Store credit is the same as any other kind of credit. Don't hold your breath in Japan. Unless you have a Japanese spouse or co-signer, you will likely be hard up financing a computer here. In stores they will ask you (when paying by credit card) how many payments do you want to make -- that's one way of financing. But it was explained to me once (by store staff) that it must be a Japanese credit card for starters, and if it's a Saison card, you can only split the payment once. All other cards, I THINK it was up to 6 times or something like that. I didn't pay much attention because I knew I wasn't eligible, nor would I be anytime in the near future. |
So, you're suggesting I find the money somehow before I come there to pay for the whole thing at once since I won't be able to get credit, loan, or anything else? |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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The only thing I like about the J keyboard is where they put the @, no more shifting. I hate it when you are typing away and after a few words, you realize you somehow shifted from English into Japanese.
Laptops here are so expensive in Japan. I bought a new hp laptop in Canada last summer and paid about half of what it would have cost in Japan. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Japanese laptops, payment options |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
| I was looking for payment options, aside from direct purchase, on the Japanese Sony and Apple sites, but couldn't find anything. For anyone who has had experience buying from either of them, do they offer finance or credit options like they do in the US? I can't afford to buy one at full price at the moment. |
Pay with a credit card and at the time of purchase, they will ask you if you would like to pay the full amount once or have your credit card charged twice, half of the price upfront and the other half a month later.
If you can't afford to buy a computer using those terms, I suggest waiting and using an internet cafe until you do have enough. On the standard English teaching salary, as single person, you should have enough for a decent computer buy just saving a small amount for 3 months.
One of the biggest mistakes that people make when buying a computer is buying too much computer for what they actually do with the thing. Do you just want to surf the internet, do word processing, play music and watch videos? Anything else? You can get away with a laptop for around 120,000 or even less. Instead of worrying about if it's PC or Mac, you should worry about more important things...and your case, price sounds like the most important. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone here use a laptop with a Japanese keyboard and prefer it overall?
I did a price comparisn on Apple's US site and Japan. The total price difference between 2 MacBooks configured exactly the same (with top options), after converting yen to USD at current exchange rates, is $70. Not a huge difference imo, especially if I decide to go with a Japanese keyboard.
Price isn't the only factor. I don't want to get a cheap, but ugly and weak laptop. I did that once, hated it, and returned it. My budget is somewhere around $1500, so that leaves quite a few options. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
Does anyone here use a laptop with a Japanese keyboard and prefer it overall?
I did a price comparisn on Apple's US site and Japan. The total price difference between 2 MacBooks configured exactly the same (with top options), after converting yen to USD at current exchange rates, is $70. Not a huge difference imo, especially if I decide to go with a Japanese keyboard.
Price isn't the only factor. I don't want to get a cheap, but ugly and weak laptop. I did that once, hated it, and returned it. My budget is somewhere around $1500, so that leaves quite a few options. |
Apple prices are really competitive in Japan, actually they are cheaper than in Canada. I bought an imac last year and it was the same price as Canada, but less 14% in tax. I talked to a rep about it and it is because apple is trying to get a foothold in the market in japan, they currently have very little. |
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madeira
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 182
Location: Oppama
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Hey, can I ask about keyboards?
I can't figure out how to use the yen symbol. I get \ or|.
Where have they hidden the British pound symbol? (I don't know how to access any of the alternate stuff, like engineering symbols or umlauts, etc. needed for German.)
Otherwise, using the Japanese keyboard is no problem. I sometimes wish I didn't have a Japanese OS, though. Error message roulette is only moderately fun.
About credit cards. Even if you don't choose to split your payments at the till, you can call and split them as much as you need, or just pay what you can. (Subject to minimums, I'm sure.) Banks don't mind charging interest, honest. I had to do this a few times after trips. |
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Hoser
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 694
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have the english version of XP then the keys should all be in the right place. They're just labeled differently. For example, my apostrophe key is directly left of the enter key. The only difference is that on my japanese keyboard, it's labeled as a semi-colon. I'm a pretty decent typist though so I don't really need to look at the keyboard. |
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Hoser
Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 694
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I also can't figure out how to get the yen symbol. I did it once by accident but I wasn't able to reproduce it unfortunately. |
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sethness
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I've used both English keyboards and Japanese keyboards, and can say definitively that
a) switching back and forth is deeply confusing,
b) the shrunken spacebar and extra keys on a Japanese keyboard are annoying rather than helpful,
c) you lose nothing by going with an English keyboard-- someone earlier in this thread said that the Japanese IME program that one uses in addition to English Windows is annoying, but I say that it performs and looks almost exactly the same as Japanese Windows.
About laptops in general, and Japanese laptops specifically--
They're ludicrously expensive, have a very brief useful life, are nearly impossible to upgrade or repair, and have almost no resale value. You're far, far better off with a generic desktop PC. Or, if you *must* have a laptop, then cruise around Japan's thrift stores ("recycle shops") and smaller PC shacks and get yourself the cheapest laptop you can. I've bought used laptops for anywhere from 5,000 yen to 15,000 yen, simply as something to type and surf on...and kept the cost way down so I wouldn't care when it broke, and wouldn't care what the resale value was.
With the rare exception of a travelling salesman, people who buy new laptops can be described in one word: "suckers".
Try to view your laptop as a cheap, expendable electronic notepad-- if you need something more powerful, get a desktop PC because it will cost less, be easily upgraded with generic parts, and be easily reparable. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm a sucker who bought a new MacBook at the end of last year- �139,000 yen. I like it though. iphoto 6 is good, no need for a headset to Skype, nice little remote control for music/ dvds.
Having lived in Japan most of my adult life it's actually the English keyboards which confuse me. Once you know that the apostrophe is Shift 7 you get used to it after a while.
I have to type in Japanese often as well as English so prefer having the kana key built in. I haven't noticed any difficulties typing in either English or Japanese on this computer. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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sethness posted
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| Try to view your laptop as a cheap, expendable electronic notepad-- if you need something more powerful, get a desktop PC because it will cost less, be easily upgraded with generic parts, and be easily reparable. |
It depends on how often and where you like to use your computer. We have a wireless lan at our house, so the laptops we have get a good workout  . |
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ghostrider
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| sethness wrote: |
With the rare exception of a travelling salesman, people who buy new laptops can be described in one word: "suckers".
Try to view your laptop as a cheap, expendable electronic notepad-- if you need something more powerful, get a desktop PC because it will cost less, be easily upgraded with generic parts, and be easily reparable. |
I'd agree if I thought I'd be at home quite a bit. I'm doubtful since I'll be working in Tokyo. Like, where I live right now in the US, I'm home quite often so a laptop isn't necessary and buying an expensive one when I'd barely use it would be stupid. Also, I may be moving around a bit the first year I'm there, so lugging around a desktop along with everything else won't be fun. I probably won't buy the newest top of the line laptop unless I have no choice. I just need a lot of ram, small size (13" or 14"), and a decent graphics card.
Just found this reuse site. Not sure if any of you know anything about it, good or bad. |
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