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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| wabisabi365 wrote: |
Something I have been doing is purchasing Canadian traveller's cheques at MUFJ Bank, making them payable to myself and signing both signature lines. I send them home. I could send them directly to my bank and have them deposited, but to keep somewhat regular letter writing with the folks, I type up a page or two of what I'm up to, and enclose $500 to $1000 to be deposited into my account to cover a loan and a credit card debit that come out each month. My dad deposits them directly into my account. He doesn't have to sign since they are payable to me and there is no cash involved. So far so good. But, these aren't huge amounts. When I've transferred more, I've gone the bank wire route.
I actually learned this from someone who has been using this method since 1996 and he's never had a problem. But, there's a first for everything... Just putting the idea here as an option you may not have thought of. (Sorry - I haven't read through all the links posted in this thread; perhaps this was already mentioned...) |
This is probably a decent option ONLY if you are dealing with a small amount, $500 or so.
From my experiences with buying TC in Japan is that there is a small commission (1-2%) and then the bank rates are not very favourable either. After all, they are banks. |
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johncanada24
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: What's The Cheapest Way to Send Money From Japan ? |
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| canuck wrote: |
| johncanada24 wrote: |
Can you read english?
I've already read these....
These posts date back To July 06 the other one is for the year 2003.
Is it possible that one would think that maybe it's a little outdated ?
I'm simply confirming that this is still the case in Japan since i know nothing about the country's changes in bank tranactions OR how fast it changes.
again.. your giving me what I don't need 
The emphasis here is change if you didn't understand the first time.
thanks for nothing, you might want to read then understand first before you post..? |
| johncanada24 wrote: |
I want information but clearly I don't want it from just you. I get info from multiple sources not from just 1 person. Why should I trust a guy that has no respect for me? Would you trust a guy that has no respect for you?
didn't think so.
As for the edits people do make mistakes obviously your mother might have made one.
The next time your mother says " I loved you " don't correct her grammar. Consider the possibility of truth.
And yes I went there. |
A caveman called. He wants his brain back. You come here, directly insult me, act rude and climbed on the newbie high horse and basically aren't willing to say, "I'm sorry. I'm thick. I apologize. I am 100% wrong." Why not? Instead, you continue, in your Cro-Magnon ways litter the forum. Have a nice life. |
I may have been wrong for insulting you but don't deny the fact that your innocent in this. Can YOU honestly say that YOU didn't do ANYTHING and that your 100% correct and innocent in all of this? So you treated me with respect right from the getco? You didn't insult or be condensending? you didn't try to offer me advice without any snarky comments? Are you innocent? Really are you? It's all me its my fault? Did I give snarky comments to you when i first posted? I have proof.......Read your first posts to me and you will see why. Infact Read your other posts to other people and you wil see the trend. Here's a better idea....
Picture it this way.....Read your posts pretend that person is talking to you ...would you respect him? what would you think? How would you treat this person. whats the point of asking these questions ....You wouldn't know how to answer them your next post will probably have nothing to do with answering these questions. I'm not the only person that thinks this way about you is that coincidence ?
I admit that I am at fault for SOME of this but can you admit to your wrong doings ? Honestly can you? I didn't think so. |
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johncanada24
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
| johncanada24 wrote: |
| I've gone through a couple of old threads on here but I want to make sure nothing has changed in terms of the best and cheapest way to send money from Japan. |
I can understand why you might post such a question, but if we really examine the facts, it becomes quite clear that there is no reason for change to occur.
When sending money home, we are essentially doing two things:
1. changing yen to Canadian dollars
2. physically or electronically sending money from Japan to Canada.
In so doing, a number of fees are incurred, some of which are avoidable but others are inescapable.
Inescapable fees:
- the levy charged by a financial institution for converting yen to dollars. It doesn't matter whether you go through a bank, post office, Lloyds or a money exchange counter at an airport, you WILL get charged a premium for changing money. If you are able to find a PURE exchange rate, and compare them to rates posted by money exchange companies or on websites like golloyds.com you will notice a difference.
Effective the time of posting:
Bank of Canada*: 10,000 yen = $96.77 CDN (rate is 103.6
Lloyds: 10,000 yen = $95.23 CDN (rate is 105.01)
Therefore, compared to the *PURE rate, you are paying a commission of 167 yen for every 10,000 yen converted.
*Using Bank of Canada's "nominal" rate -- which is neither the buying nor selling rate, but an indicative rate representing an estimate of where the rate is at noon on that particular day. It also does NOT represent the "cash rate" which includes the commission taken by a financial institution for performing an exchange transaction. This is typically around 4%.
-transportation fees
Whether it's stuffing your wallet full of bank notes, sending a money order or bank draft, doing a wire transfer, money MUST somehow get from Japan to Canada. This is also never going to be free.
- cost of taking your money home personally: well, unless you are making a trip home ANYWAY, the cost of a flight ticket just to bring money home in a briefcase would be prohibitive, and quite possibly against certain laws governing how much cash money can be brought in or taken out of a country.
- bank draft or money order (the price to issue one varies depending on the bank or financial institution)
- wire transfer (the price for this service also varies)
- deposit fees: also unavoidable... Unless you are indeed carrying a briefcase full of money and walk into a Canadian bank (or put the money under your rug in a house in Canada) every Canadian bank will charge you SOMETHING to accept the money you are sending them.
A note about inescapable fees. Since they are indeed, unavoidable, there is absolutely NO reason for the price of sending money home to change to our benefit. If I KNOW I've got you by the short & curlies, why on earth would I lower my prices? Only free-market factors would affect this, namely: an massive influx of foreigners into Japan, causing a rise in the number of people (and amount of money being sent) to rise dramatically. If this were enough to cause a company like Lloyds to get competition from another company, we MAY, perhaps see a price war and fees go down.
The same goes for the Canadian end. Unless there is a REASON for a Canadian bank to omit fees involved in accepting a draft or transfer from overseas, why would they?
A second note about inescapable fees: Even in the case of Citibank, since we are still dealing with a) currency exchange and b) money changing physical locations -- not just between branches but between countries with VERY different banking systems, fees will still apply. How much? According to their website, it ain't cheap... See my example below.
Escapable fees
Almost not worth mentioning, but it's probably the main speculation that the OP's question is based on so I bring it up here.
- surcharges: many companies or banks don't specialize or WANT to specialize in exchange/sending/receiving money internationally so they tend to charge a premium for such transactions. One such example is the "prefectural bank" in my home prefecture. You may perform any transaction to/from another country, but they'll charge you through the nose!
Conclusion:
If we examine all the unavoidables, add them together, we see that there's not a whole lot that can make the process of sending money home any cheaper than what has been currently available. Short of boarding a plane with all your money in a briefcase, the fees (even though not necessarily standard) will always apply.
Examples (using 10,000 yen):
Via the post office:
(note: MUST be made via money order sent to your Canadian bank because there is no postal savings system in Canada allowing you to send it directly to an account. Therefore, this takes 20-30 days according to the Yucho website).
Amount being sent: 10,000
Remittance charge: 2500 yen
Exchange rate: (couldn't find the cash rate on their website, so I will use the standard figure of prime rate + 4%): 103.68
Amount sent: $69.44
CIBC deposit fee: $10.00
-----------------------------------------
FINAL amount in bank account: $59.44
Via Lloyds:
Amount being sent: 10,000 yen
Remittance charge: 2000 yen
Exchange rate: 105.01
Amount sent: $76.18
CIBC wire transfer deposit fee: $10.00
-----------------------------------------
FINAL amount in bank account: $66.18
Via Citibank: (assuming 2 Citi accounts: 1 in Japan; 1 in Canada)
Amount being sent: 10,000 yen
Remittance charges: (handling charge 2000 yen, electronic transfer fee 2000 yen is discounted to a total of 3500 yen for Citi customers)
Exchange rate: 104.25
Amount sent: $62.35
deposit fee: $0 (already taken into account above)
-----------------------------------------
FINAL amount in bank account: $62.35
Via Shinsei Bank:
Amount being sent: 10,000 yen
Remittance charges: 4000 yen
Exchange rate: 104.32
Amount sent: $57.51
CIBC wire transfer deposit fee: $10.00
-----------------------------------------
FINAL amount in bank account: $47.51
**NB: There is another way to achieve a transfer using Shinsei that would POSSIBLY be much cheaper. However, this would require sending an ATM card to a family member or friend in Canada and having them physically withdraw the money from your Japanese bank account and physically bring it to your Canadian bank... IF there is no remittance charge for THIS, then the number calculations would change as follows:
Amount being sent: 10,000 yen
Remittance charges: 0 yen
Exchange rate: 104.32
Amount sent: $95.86
CIBC deposit fee: $0 (if done at an ATM or in person)
-----------------------------------------
FINAL amount in bank account: $95.86
HOWEVER: This is something that I would phone Shinsei about FIRST before attempting such a thing. Also, this presumes there is someone in Canada whom you trust IMPLICITLY to do the transactions for you.
FINAL CONCLUSION:
At the moment, the cheapest and very fast way to send money home to Canada is Lloyds.
Since Japan's postal system started charging 2500 yen for their remittance service, and given the fact that it can take up to a month to send, it becomes a fairly expensive, slow way to send money home.
Citibank -- they are no different than anyone else. Just because you have a Citi account in North America doesn't mean you will escape remittance, exchange and deposit fees -- you won't.
It seems that there MAY be a small loophole in Shinsei's system, BUT as I mentioned, you need someone on the other end acting as your agent... Also, barring any other fees charged by PLUS (VISA), (their exchange rate is prime plus 4%) Canadian ATMs usually charge a premium for foreign withdrawals, which is usually $1.00 but can be as high as $5.00 for an out-of-country card. Also something worth checking into.
So, I hope this clears up any questions or misunderstandings involved in sending money home (to Canada). If there are any errors, please PM me and I will edit my post to reflect the changes. |
Thanks for the useful info. Llyods seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to go. If I happen to find a loophole somewhere or any updated info on this I will post. I have a Japanese friend who is living in my city that might know of a better way but he's looking into it i'll keep you posted. |
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seastarr
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I shopped around when I was in Japan and Lloyds was the best way to send money back to Canada. When you sign up, they also send Japanese instructions for you to give your bank so they can help you through the process. If you don't have online banking set up, I suggest you look into it. I bank through RBC and I was never charged any additional fees for depositing money through Lloyds. Lloyds is also convienent if you ever plan on leaving Japan because you can have someone transfer your last cheque for you through Lloyds. I tried the post office money order once while waiting to receive my Lloyds paperwork and it took ages to get back to Canada. Lloyds was always in my account within a couple of business days. My boyfriend and I used to send our money together then split it up through online banking, so we only had to pay one fee. If you had a friend you trusted, I suppose you could do the same. |
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craven
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Jim, that was a fantastic breakdown!! Even back when the post office was a better economical option, I still liked the convenience of Lloyds:
-sending Japanese instructions to show to bank staff to set up your account
-VERY fast transfer
- can be done from any ATM, any time...plus, you can actually have a furikomi (transfer) card made with your info so you only ever have to enter it in manually the first time (from there on out, you just pop in the card).
Does anyone have specific information about how Lloyds changes the exchange rates based on how much you transfer?
And while I'm at it...I know this is a little off topic, but do any of the Canadians here have information about how to consolidate loans from overseas? I'm thinking along the lines of combining student loan and credit card payments. |
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timmyjames1976
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: Great Info |
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So.....the next question is, for us semi-newby, clueless types...where does one, or how does one use Lloyds?
But really....super helpful post minus the occasional spat |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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timmyjames1976
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Cheers!  |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| craven wrote: |
-sending Japanese instructions to show to bank staff to set up your account
-VERY fast transfer
- can be done from any ATM, any time...plus, you can actually have a furikomi (transfer) card made with your info so you only ever have to enter it in manually the first time (from there on out, you just pop in the card). |
And now that I have my Shinsei bank account, I don't even need that silly furikomi card and an ATM. As soon as I get paid (by direct deposit from my employer) I just go home, log on and using (all-English) Internet banking, send money via Lloyds, pay my rent, etc, etc....
Maybe someday, like a LOT of Canada, Japan will become largely cash-less so I can walk around with an almost-empty wallet, merly paying for everything by J-Debit.... But that's still a few years away. At least until then, large transfers like rent and sending money home can be done from the comfort of my living room couch. |
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