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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Fain wet mi. |
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sarliz
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Jalisco
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: Slightly Off Topic, But Still About Fruit |
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| I'm gonna co-op this here thread for a second to talk about my own fruit-related scandal. After much bragging about my estomago de perro, and eating everything I felt like in the streets, I think I finally got struck down by an evil case of food poisoning. Out of the things I ate that fateful morning, a half of a papaya (unwrapped) picked up from my favorite fruit stall, seems to be the most likely culprit. Questions to ease my mind: Whole papayas should be cool, right? I'm assuming it's openess allowed some evil little bacteria to get in there and make it's home. Assuming I can convince my stomach not to turn on site. Other peel-on fruits from the some joint, too? They've got some damn fine guyabas I don't want to say goodbye to. And mangos. Oh, and as my mind was going and the nausea was hitting me, wouldn't you know that the first thought in my head was "I shouldn't have eaten that UNPEELED papaya...." Despite my vehement nodding while reading how it's not a word, nor should ever be. Stupid subconcious. |
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cangringo
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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hey great idea, we can combine all words with their articles and then the learners will no longer get confused about where to use a and an...
I got messed up today in class with alright - I was writing it on the board as alright but the student said "shouldn't that be with two ll's which got me thinking about all right and I had to make sure that there were in fact two ways to say this. Phew.
The other one that drives me crazy is when people say alls as in "alls I have to do". I originally thought it was only backwoods hicks that perpetuated this but I have heard educated people use it. Incredibly irritating!!! It's already a plural. Although there are many non-countables that people make countable and it's very confusing for learners. Anyone else find this?? Things like coke and coffee and sugar in coffee. "Get me a couple cokes", "How many sugars do you take" |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| I can't think of a single English word in which the article "a" has been combined with its noun. Can you? The prefix "a-" has other meanings. |
Still, I can see where some people could get confused. There are some common words in English that can be both a + a separate word or a written as the first letter of the word.
A lone tree stands in the field.
It is there all alone.
Do you want to be a part of the group?
No, I prefer to work apart from the others.
We walked along a country road.
It was a long country road. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ben Round,
Nice examples. However, I don't think that the "a-" in those words is necessarily the indefinite article (especially in apart and alone). |
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eclectic
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 1122
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| "conversate" has always really pissed me off. No I wasnt implying this thread was over, I assure you! Know what I hate? HAVING to use "an" when saying or writing something like "it was AN horrible thing"....sounds so stupid. I been usin' "alot" for years, never even knew it. |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
Ben Round,
Nice examples. However, I don't think that the "a-" in those words is necessarily the indefinite article (especially in apart and alone). |
I don't think so either, and I didn't suggest it was. My point was that there are situations in the English language that appear similar to the a lot vs. alot example.
The one that confuses me is when to write a while vs. awhile. |
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cangringo
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/awhile
"Awhile, an adverb, is never preceded by a preposition such as for, but the two-word form a while may be preceded by a preposition. In writing, each of the following is acceptable: stay awhile; stay for a while; stay a while (but not stay for awhile)."
does this help?? 
I always have to think before using affect or effect - I know the difference but it requires a double check for me.
I have never heard conversate...  and why do you have to use an horrible and not a horrible. If the h is said that means you use the article a... no?? The one that gets me is herbs... |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| cangringo wrote: |
| does this help?? |
Thanks. Actually, I was waiting for Henry to explain to me the logic for why it's okay to combine a with while to form awhile but not okay to combine a with lot to form alot.
He stayed for a while.
He stayed awhile.
He stayed for a lot of time.
He stayed alot of time.* |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: |
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awhile is an adverb and not a combination of article + noun.
He gave me a lot of books.
*He gave me alot of books. |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
awhile is an adverb and not a combination of article + noun.
He gave me a lot of books.
*He gave me alot of books. |
So, we can take the noun phrase a while and make it an adverb by writing it as one word awhile. However, we can't take the noun phrase a lot and make it an adverb by writing it as one word *alot, right? I had to think about it a lot / *alot / a while / awhile, but now I understand.  |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bingo. You've got it now. alot does not function as an adverb in "He gave me alot of books." |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Bingo. You've got it now. alot does not function as an adverb in "He gave me alot of books." |
However, a lot can function as an adverb, can't it? He learns a lot faster. Why not make it alot when it's an adverb in the same manner that we do with awhile? |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
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He learns a tad faster.
He learns a bit faster.
He learns a little faster.
He learns a lot faster.
Let's combine the articles with all those nouns, shall we? Then we'll have a whole bunch of new words: atad, abit, alittle, and alot. And don't forget awhole.  |
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Samantha
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Henry_Cowell wrote:
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| Then we'll have a whole bunch of new words: atad, abit, alittle, and alot. And don't forget awhole |
I think that would be "a-hole". Darn this language anyway; just can't get it straight. |
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