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natsume · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 409 Location: Chongqing, China

As far as "doko iku no" goes, when the phrase was introduced in my last Japanese class, our sensei said most people who may ask you don't really expect an answer, and might be taken aback if you actually start to tell them. It's just a greeting...

My great Aunt often asks me "Whaddya know?" I don't think she is looking for a long answer...

sethness · Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 209 Location: Hiroshima, Japan

A neighborhood block association, or those fearless old aunties, can be a blessing or a horror.

Generally, they think of you as the dumb block dog-- entertaining, but lawless, insensitive to abuse, and in desperate need of a leash.

In my neighborhood, the block associations didn't include me except if I chanced to see that an event was going on, in which case they'd warmly invite me to participate (and pay when necessary). I wasn't asked to pay any fees, nor would I have, though I was quite willing to pitch in with block-cleaning activities.

True, sometimes block-association twits would come to my door on Sundays, but I put them in the same category as the Jehovah's Witnesses (who came more often), and I either shouted through the door or pretended not to be home. Playing "dumb gaijin" can also be a big help in getting rid of these folks.

i recall vividly when a block twit came to my door asking for signatures and money in support of having hald-held sirens for kids in the parks, "because some unsavory-looking people had been hanging around the parks". I scolded her for her paranoia, told her to stop wasting folks' time with scare stories, and sent her packing, refusing to even let her talk to anyone else in the building.

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All that having been said, there're the shuukaisho and kouminkan, which are astounding and wonderful parts of lving in the Japanese inaka. A shuukaisho is a small neighborhood building used for clubs, lessons, and parties. A kouminkan is a larger version of that. This is the center of community life-- you can go there for events, flea markets, farmers' markets, PC lessons, calligraphy, woodcarving, learning Japanese, leraning sign language, volleyball, basketball, karaoke, rock bands, daycare... you name it. You may even be able to teach very profitable English lessons through those places.

If you're near a shuukaisho or kouminkan, DEFINITELY check 'em out.
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As for the local aunti-nazis: yep, they think you're pondscum, and will assume that you'll tolerate their most outrageous behavior. They'll assume that you will treat them as cultural babysitters whose word is law.

Worse, many of them have very little sense about what'll offend you.

I can't count the times an old japanese lady has poked my middle and said "Anta ha debu da, ne!" (My, you're a fatty!") or "nande mada kekkon shinai no?" ("Why ain't you married yet?")

I've even walked out of a friend's party and taken a cab home, when one old biddy kept mocking my weight to anyone who'd listen. Telling her that this was unspeakably rude where I came from didn't help-- she just plowed on as though she were complimenting someone's new drapes.

On the positive side, sometimes it's GOOD when one of the kinder aunties takes you under her wing-- if she's sane, moderately respectful, and polite, that is.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Very interesting post, sethness...

Funny thing, recently. I know that it's "polite" in Japan to comment that you've gained weight if it's been a long time since you last law them (implying that you must be doing well because you are eating well)... But I find that nowadays many Japanese tend to be a lot more "Western" about the weight thing, and even a lot more honest.

I've been steadily losing weight (I talked about this on another thread a few months back) due to a changed eating regimen and plenty of exercise... But since I suffered a really nasty bout of gastroenteritis when we came back from Canada in the first week of January, I lost a bit more weight so it's become a great gag on whoever comments on my weight.... (For the sake of reference, I used to weigh 93kg at my yearly physical 2 years ago and now I'm down to 83.4kg).

Even better is the fact that the entire exchange can go on in Japanese and the sense of the joke and none of the humour are lost and results in my "victims" laughing uncontrollably.

Eg.

Nihonjin acquaintance: Ahhhh! JimDunropu-sensei! Hisashiburi desu ne! (Long time no see!)
Me: Yeah! Long time no see!
Nihonjin acquaintance: Wow. You look slim! Have you lost some weight?
Me: Yup. Sure have. It's thanks to a new diet I've been on recently.
Nihonjin: EHHHHH???? For real? It must be really effective. I want to lose weight too! Please teach me -- What kind of diet is it?
Me: It's called a "norovirus*"

(rimshot: Ba-Da-Bsshhh!!!)

*norovirus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norovirus

southofreality · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 579 Location: Tokyo

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:08 am Post subject:

southofreality · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 579 Location: Tokyo

sethness · Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 209 Location: Hiroshima, Japan

JimDunlop2,

Thanks for posting. I didn't know that it's commonplace for Japanese to comment on one's weight if they haven't seen you for a while.

However, the brash talk from fearless aunties I referred to earlier would NOT fall into that category. One of'em, for example (the head of the local Italian society, and therefore a veteran of dealing with foreigners) spent 15 minutes at a Christmas party telling anyone who'd listen that I ate twice what she ate, and that I was fat. Didn't matter that I said "That's rude talk, to an American". Didn't matter that she didn't know me well. Didn't matter when I got so offended that I turned red, scowled openly and left halfway through the party.

It's fearless, rude, ....and rather surprising coming from elder members of a society famed for its politeness.

I wish I could find a reason for this abherrant behavior from obachans. Alcoholism... bitterness from no longer being the young debutante in society... fearlessness from controlling growing kids? Why do these older ladies seem to drink so deeply from the well of "Rude"?

shuize · Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 1270

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

in Japanese, the word for women like that is kusobaba.
But older men can be just as rude, so they are called kusogigi.

SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

Check out this story from todays newspaper. Maybe this is the kind of stuff cafebleu was talking about.

Sekikawa Niigata Prefecture- Three community leaders were ordered to pay 2.2 million yen in compensation to 11 residents who were ostracised for refusing to take part in a local event.
The Niigata District Court's Shibata Branch ruled Tuesday that he ostracism carried out by the three defendants was illegal.
According to the ruling, the problem in a hamlet of 36 households in Sekikawa started over a fishing contest for Japanese Char in April 2004. A resident declined to help the project management, saying, "I wouldn't have much time to spend during the Bon holiday if I had to prepare for the contest and do the clean-up work after the contest"
The resident also accused one of the leaders of padding the bill for subsidies from the village when buying the fish.
The plaintiffs said they were threatened with ostracism if they failed to comply with the community's decision. But 15 residents quit, the ruling said.
From June, the community leaders and other residents prohibited the pliantiffs from using community property and collecting edible wild plants and mushrooms from a nearby mountain, the ruling said.
The hamlet's garbage collection boxes were locked, and the bulletins stopped arriving at the plaintiffs homes. "The plaintiffs quit the competition, but they didn't leave the community," Presiding Judge Yoshiaki matsui said, adding that the ostracism infringed the palintiffs rights as community residents.
One community leader said they are considering an appeal.
The practice of ostracism called murahachibu started ion the Edo period (1603-1867). When someone in a village broke the social code or order, the other residents would alienate and break off contacct with the offender.