Job Discussion Forums

[wailingtraps]

Ok i'll try and go through this point by point....


How much of a risk are you taking.......?

Very hard to say.....Everywhere i've worked has always been good when it comes to honouring their contract....it helps to be a little flexible but sometimes you do have to stand your ground......If you are set on Beijing, Hangzhou or Suzhou then try and get a ground level picture on which schools have a good rep.....Look around this site and and any other China/EFL websites to get a picture.....if you are lucky you might even get a few leads from people following this thread..that's if they aren't too busy tearing lumps put of each other....



10,000 rmb/month at a University.......I'd say no way but I could well be wrong. Most Unis pay in the region of 4k but you don't usually have to teach too many hours and can therefore do some side work and you should get free housing ........I'm not sure how legal working outside the school you are employed at is.......so take this into consideration.......its a regular topic for ranting on this forum...

The other thing to take into consideration is that most Unis will be looking to employ teachers for next semester.....starting a job before then is probably a little unrealistic but you might find a few vacancies where FT's have left.....

So probably the best thing to do is have a look at Unis in the areas you want to work in. Compare the salaries and general conditions of the contract (and little details like where they are,transport links etc) and then get cracking on some applications. If you can, try and speak to the current FT's and see if they can give you a handle on what the place is like. The more spade work you can put in before you go the better..................


Hopefully this will be of some help.......

Good luck!!!!

[Bayden]

The above poster seems to be a little out of date, 4K is about what low level mills are paying.
These days, as far as I'm aware, low level Uni's are paying 6k and upwards.
Both are exclusive of accommodation.
How bad is it?
It's all good.
If you really want know how it is, spend some time perusing these boards.

[Leon Purvis]

[clark.w.griswald]

[cj750]

10 k is a good first offer....

make sure you check the requirements and tailor your cv to fit the parameters...

as to negotiation..I only listen to the money ..others want the amenities..that is what the usual office row is over..housing , bills, extra hours worked...late pay is often cleared up in a day or two...
just remember the Chinese are good at separating you from your money ...whither they are FAOs or vendors in a market...contracts are on a continued negociation basis, and they have no real authority....there are no associations or groups that can help if a disgreement comes on and you will have to work it out your self...

no written contract of any sort will guarantee you a unfettered time in China..the business culture is based on deception...(read Art of War, you can bet your boss has)


bigger cities have western products ..smaller cities are less expensive..trade off..but I prefer the access to satellite TV and the relative ease of living in Beijing..not that I like the city..but it is the best travel hub in China...and 10 K is more likely if you teach for an exchange program..one in which students will later go overseas...

pm if you need anything specific...

[laowaigirl]

Bayden,

You said that they are requiring two years experience for work permits. I had not heard this -- I thought you could get hired by some schools without experience.

[HunanForeignGuy]

[latefordinner]

wailingtraps makes some good points, if you haven't read his post yet please do so.

Good news and bad. The situation in China can get just as bad as the situations you experienced/observed in Korea. Maybe worse. Fortunately, as Clark posts, you can reduce the likelihood of a bad experience by doing your homework. There's no such thing as bad-employer insurance, but you can reduce the risk. Kinda like cancer. If you don't smoke you're less likely to get it, but there's no guarantee. Well if you wanted a life devoid of risk then you'd never have travelled in the first place.

Hmm, I seem to agree with CWG, at least in part. Not the first time. I think we're still inclined to disagree as to the extent of the risk (I see it as much riskier), but I believe we agree as to the importance of managing risk.

[Sugarcandy Mountain]

I'm not sure about the 2 years experience stated above. As I typed elsewhere, I know of a university in Nanjing that hires people fresh out of college, without experience. I think the experience requirement, in most employers eyes, boils down to 2 years experience working in any field. I assume the originator has worked delivering pizza or something else over the years.

As for Bayden's comment - "The above poster seems to be a little out of date, 4K is about what low level mills are paying.
These days, as far as I'm aware, low level Uni's are paying 6k and upwards.
Both are exclusive of accommodation. "

I worked at a university in Nanjing last year ranked about 250 on NetBig's Chinese university rankings http://rank2003.netbig.com/en/rnk_1_0_0.htm

They are certainly not in the upper tier, nor in the bottom(low level) of the 600 or so schools they rank. The pay for a BS was 3000. If you have a graduate degree then about 4500. Including accommodation.

Most "mills" pay at least 8,000. EF pays 9k; Web 12k, Wall St. 14k. But, that depends on your definition of a mill. Perhaps EF et al are "high level" mills??

Don't believe everything you read on this site.

[james s]

...

[Anda]

Good-day Dragon-girl.


Look Dragongirl this pay thing; I worked for a month in Nanjing then came to where I am in the country six months ago.

The place I worked for in Nanjing I had to put in a five hour day for which I got 8,000 RMB a month less utilities on the apartment supplied. The staff there had about 8 foreign teachers and all are still there. I got the job off Dave's board, the person I contacted was Robert Cochrane on 86-25-52724616 there are no jobs there now to my knowledge plus it is holidays but he would be good to talk to in two or three weeks for ideas at least.

Where I work now I get 4,500 for a 16 hour week plus an apartment plus utilities and airfares along with about three months of paid holidays a year. I can walk to work in ten minutes and I'm in the center of town. My students are good to teach and it is a goverment job. I'm working in a low paid part of Jiangsu so privates are out. I'm happy with my job and the people I work with. Do you think I want to work for a instutite and get one or two weeks off a year?

I've done the instutite thing and also did my time in the public school EPIK program in South Korea; all up I lasted eight and a half years in Korea. I'm finding the Chinese better to work for than the Koreans.

The money thing here is hours and it is best to get somewhere that is offering the hours up front and written into the contract. There are a few top paying jobs like one I've heard of in Shanghi for 18,000 RMB a month but jobs like this are very few in number and you have to be tops yourself.

You should be looking at holidays. location in city, hours, utilities etc not just wages.

[TravellingAround]

[Brian Caulfield]

Sometimes when reading these kinds of postings I feel there is baiting going on . What I see in China is Chinese people doing jobs with nothing to do , so they bait me into saying bad things about China . I think the real problem lies in that Chinese see westerners as being honest and easy to take advantage off because of this honesty . I thought Roger was baiting when I came here but through contacts with others I found him or her to be very straightforward and very informative about how things work in China .

[dragongirl]

Thanks so much for all of the great responses. This really helps me go in the right direction. I have been checking everything out and I feel this is really a feasible option for me. Thanks again!

[Steppenwolf]