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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Newb Advice, Please? |
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| elegantlywaisted wrote: |
| I have learned that university is not for me at any rate, since I can't learn the way that you are require to learn in schools. |
So what makes you think that you can learn something in a TEFL or CELTA course? |
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vashdown2
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 124
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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There are LOTS of different kinds of learning.
I dont know why everyone is jumping on her.... I, myself, love school, universities, books, writing, etc... but its not for everyone.
That's why Trade Schools were invented.
Hair dressers
Mechanics
Manucurists
Gardeners,
Painters,
Caretakers,etc....
You get the point. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: |
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So are the CELTA and TEFL certificates awarded by trade schools?
Let's wait for "thrifty" to chime in on this one...  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I agree that people shouldn't be pushed into doing post secondary education if they aren't ready. But that doesn't mean that teaching overseas is necessarily going to be a good option, especially if the goal not a gap year, but a career- which is what the OP is suggesting he/she wants to do. |
Hear Hear! I second that thought! |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
So are the CELTA and TEFL certificates awarded by trade schools?
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They sometimes are in Toronto, Ontario where the OP is from. They are also offered through community colleges (not the same thing as a trade school in Ontario- a community college is where you go to become an auto mechanic or plumber, but also to get into radio/television or a lot of other things, but usually not to become a hairdresser or a bartender- although tending bar may be an aspect of one or two of the programmes. It's name is shortened to 'college') and universities (not the same thing as a community college, and so the term 'college' is not usually used to descibe a university as a whole, like it is in the US with things like 'a college degree'). For community colleges and universities you need a degree to do a TESL certificate. Private providers who call themselves colleges can do and say whatever they want, but what they say may not even be true.
It can be pretty complicated wading through the different education levels because in Ontario, a 'college' can be:
1. A private organization that really isn't a college at all other than in its registered name (there are a lot of this kind). They do not have to meet any goverment standards whatsoever (the internet TESOL certiicates from colleges that nobody has ever heard of before can be an example of this)
2.A trade school (Buddy's Hairdressing/ bar tending College) which is a private for-profit business that meets a minimum educational requirement set by the goverment, and for which the goverment has lists- along with warnings that there is no guarantee of actual quality or even accuracy in their training, but that they have passed a bar set by the govermemt and so can have a little stylish patch on their website/ in the window of their storefront.
3. A community college (Humber College of Applied Arts and Technology) which is a system that is desinged for hands-on training and offers three year diplomas in a range of subjects related to areas from communications (including journalism) to cooking to construction. This is the kind of thing the OP mentioned has no programmes that he's interested in (although they offer TESL certificates, but only to people who already have a degree- there are tonnes of one-year post graduate certificates offered as well for people with a degree that are also often available to people with a three year college diploma). This is also the level that many people go to for one year in order to get around some pretty average grades in highs chool because they can use the grades from this kind of institution to apply to university instead of their high school grades.
4. A building or campus of a university For example, Scarborough College of the University of Toronto is the campus of the University of Toronto located in Scarborough. Each building that contains a residece as well as holds classes on the main down-town Toronto campus is also called a college, but it's really just a building amngst the buildings in the downtown campus and students are affilliated with one of them- their 'home college' means that they could take particular courses offered in this building that people not affiliated with it may not have access to. You have to choose one college to be affiliated with and each one usually houses particular academic areas- Fine Arts, Engineering etc.
People in Ontario either just know which colleges are which kind from being familiar with the local ones (most people go to local colleges, and to a lesser extent universities, if they are from Toronto, not that many go to Ottawa for school), or else they use the internet or the career centre in their school or library to research colleges. It helps that there is one application for all community colleges that lists the names of the colleges and the code for the programmes, because basically a lot of the for-profit organizations that call themselves 'colleges' want people to think they are a community college or on the same level as one- like if a language school tries to say that its certificate in 'Advanced English' is going to be as valid as a CAEL band score or a TOEFL score or whatever for university placement. 99.9% of the time it's just not true, but there will always be someone who believes it and thinks that they've found an easy way around some problem they've got. |
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tom selleck
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 979
Location: Urumqi...for the 3rd time.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Oh, to be young again. It's funny you posted this, since now I'm firmly ensconced in middle age and coincidentally enough, have been ruminating about these very same topics. What would I do if I were 20 again? Go to school.
One of my College profs opined openly to myself and a couple other students that it's probably best for young people to be in school. They have yet to mature in a meaningful way to make a significant contribution in the workforce, therefore, by the time you reach 24 or so, you've grown up a little and your less likely to be annoying to your co-workers, customers and ultimately, your own career.
It's pretty hard to rewrite resumes.
Just a suggestion. Do what I did 25 years ago, but do it better. I went to Red Deer College. Admission is easy. Credits can be earned, and after 2 years, you can transfer to U of A or U of C. In two year's time, you can earn a diploma, which can still provide you the option of going to China. Thailand's out. Check the Thailand thread. If you've grown accustomed to academia by that time do get a degree.
Don't get overly worried about the crush of student loans. In my past life, I took credit apps. Believe me, it's completely normal nowadays for young people to have 30k in student loans. Don't get all excited about the "turbofire jet car" for 2007 in gunmetal blue. Buying a car on credit is a waste of money, but education never is.
Just like you, I never thought I'd be a stalwart student when I entered College in 1981. But lo and behold I surprised the heck out of myself and really put my shoulder to the wheel. Like I said though, do it better than I did. Go on to Uni. |
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Jetgirly
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ I'm in my fifth year of university in Canada (working on a post-degree B.Ed) and I've incurred $3,500 in student loans. I'll probably need another three grand or so before I graduate next year (unless I can do a term abroad in Mexico). For one year I lived with my parents and had a scholarship covering tuition, for the other years I lived on my own and paid my way through school. Be selective in choosing part-time work during the school year (for example, some on-campus unionized jobs will pay part of your tuition), work hard during the summer and spend responsibly and you can easily get through your undergrad without a loan. I only needed a loan because I returned from two years of EFLing in Italy with zero dollars/euros to my name! |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I used to think that $5-10,000 was a lot of money, however it isn't. Think what you'll make over a lifetime, most make over $1,000,000 in a westernized country (40 years X 40,000 is 1.6million). Money comes and goes. Putting money into your education is a good investment. |
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red dog
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I agree that people shouldn't be pushed into doing post secondary education if they aren't ready. But that doesn't mean that teaching overseas is necessarily going to be a good option, especially if the goal not a gap year, but a career- which is what the OP is suggesting he/she wants to do. |
Hear Hear! I second that thought! |
OK, point taken, but wouldn't it be a good idea for the OP to try the field out first ... before deciding whether to pursue it as a long-term career? A year as an EFLer might give him/her an incentive to go back to school. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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red dog wrote:
| Quote: |
| wouldn't it be a good idea for the OP to try the field out first ... before deciding whether to pursue it as a long-term career? A year as an EFLer might give him/her an incentive to go back to school. |
It might give that incentive, but look at what the OP has written:
| Quote: |
| I have learned that university is not for me at any rate, since I can't learn the way that you are require to learn in schools. |
| Quote: |
| college most likely would be the best road for me, but there is nothing offered that is of any interest. |
| Quote: |
| I still wish to persue this for now, regardless of the degree situation. |
Looks like there is no motivation to stir (to me, anyway). It appears that the OP is simply one of those people that is looking for a loophole. |
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britishempire
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| 3,500 dollars debt is nothing, try 20 000 GBP in todays student debt. |
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Jetgirly
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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^ The only people I know with significant student debt didn't take reasonable steps to minimize their debt during university. For someone with 30,000 pounds debt I would ask:
- Did you work part-time during university?
- Did you even think of looking for a unionized job that contributes towards your tuition?
- Did you work full-time during the summers and breaks?
- Did you apply for every single scholarship and bursary that you could have?
- Did you spend your money responsibly during the school year?
- Did you go to the bar four nights a week?
- Did you travel with your friends during breaks?
- Did you pay for gas/maintenance of a car when you could have used public transport?
For four years (not counting the first year which was entirely covered by scholarships) I worked enough over the summer to pay for tuition, rent, utlities, etc for the school year. Then, I worked part-time through the school year to pay for stuff like food, clothes, entertainment, etc. Come April there was always money left over. |
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red dog
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
red dog wrote:
| Quote: |
| wouldn't it be a good idea for the OP to try the field out first ... before deciding whether to pursue it as a long-term career? A year as an EFLer might give him/her an incentive to go back to school. |
It might give that incentive, but look at what the OP has written:
| Quote: |
| I have learned that university is not for me at any rate, since I can't learn the way that you are require to learn in schools. |
| Quote: |
| college most likely would be the best road for me, but there is nothing offered that is of any interest. |
| Quote: |
| I still wish to persue this for now, regardless of the degree situation. |
Looks like there is no motivation to stir (to me, anyway). It appears that the OP is simply one of those people that is looking for a loophole. |
Yeah, but if he's not motivated to study now, it's obviously not going to benefit him (her?) very much. I don't see anything wrong with people choosing to do other things for a few years, while they're still young. Hopefully the OP will eventually find a subject that engages his or her interest ... why rush? |
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