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Teaching on a tourist visa is that bad?
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daodejing



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject: Teaching on a tourist visa is that bad? Reply with quote

So I was just reading a "horror story" and many posters were saying that teaching on a tourist visa is really bad.

I met with a school in Shanghai last week and they told me they had part-time position available, teaching 5 hours per week in the evenings and they can't get me a visa. They said their other part-time, foreign teachers have a work visa from their full-time-job company. The person that inverviewed me knows that I'm on a tourist visa and wants to sign a contract with me next week. She says she'll look into getting me a visa but it's not likely.

The situation is this: I'll leave the country and come back this week, so I'll then have another 90 days on the second entry of my tourist visa. I'd like to find a job--teaching or otherwise--before the visa runs out in early June. My money situation is not bad; I have money in the bank but I'd rather start earning some money right away. So should I just forget about this part-time job and find something else? Thanks.
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eslstudies



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's illegal, and could see you deported.
You can take your chances on that.
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Laoshi1950



Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 198
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working on a Tourist Visa is illegal in any country - and it is illegal here in China too.

You are the one in trouble if you are caught illegally working by the PSB Immigration Police.

You should have a Work Visa and Foreigner Residence Permit to work legally in China.


Last edited by Laoshi1950 on Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Steppenwolf



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what's the point about signing a contract with your part-time employer since any such contract is legally unenforceable?
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james s



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 676
Location: Raincity

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by james s on Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching on a tourist visa is that bad? Reply with quote

daodejing wrote:
So I was just reading a "horror story" and many posters were saying that teaching on a tourist visa is really bad.


Does the government of the country that you come from allow foreign visitors to come in and work on tourist visas? I doubt it as most, if not all, countries issue tourist visas for tourism and work visas for those who are going to be working.

If you qualify for legal work as a foreign English teacher here then it is in your best interests to find a job that can and will employ you legally. Far too many people seem to break the rules when it suits them and then complain when employers don't do the right thing by them Rolling Eyes Join the crowd that is employed legally and therefore has at least some rights!
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james s



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 676
Location: Raincity

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by james s on Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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upchuckles



Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

China Visa Service for ESL Teachers Z-Visa.Com

Come to the USA and work on a tourist visa.. Then once you're caught ask yourself if it was worth it.. Our jails are cleaner.. Comparing it to ones own country is a reasonable analogy as this question concerns laws and enforcement of those laws.. America may enforce its laws, but in a predictable way.. China is predictable only in the sense that it services the Chinese party who profits the most.. has the most relationships and almost never the foreigner whos ignorance of immigration law is by no means an adequate defence for breaking the law..

I had a tumor on my foot once, and found out if I go to enough Doctors, that in time, I could get the answer I was looking for. . as it turned out.. all the other Drs were right..

Keep asking the question you intuitively should know the answer to already.. Eventually you'll get the answer you want.. then when the shiit hits the fan, make another post here inquiring what to do..

PS> If you agree to work for this school insist on no contract and getting paid at the end of each day. This is attainable and reasonable. At the very least each week so your chance of getting screwed is minimized..

Hahahahahaha!


Last edited by upchuckles on Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Anda



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:52 am    Post subject: Um Reply with quote

.If it is a private institute set up then no way. Um, I know someone that came to China for a government job on a tourist visa, the first school registered him straight off with the local police, then he got handed along to a second school who didn't register him quick enough and was school was asked to pay a 5,000 RMB fine. It got sorted out for less. This was between government departments and it was three months before the said teacher had a teaching visa.

Teacher is still here and doing okay. But take a lesson from this and don't even dream of doing it in the private sector

You have to register straight away here with the police if you are working somewhere; this is plain and simple, this is regardless of visa type; meaning tourist or work visa.


Last edited by Anda on Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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daodejing



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: good points Reply with quote

Thanks, good points everyone. It looks like it won't be worth the risk.

I agree that in some small towns a foreign teacher may be an asset and won't be bothered. Last place in China where I lived many foreign teachers didn't try to hide the fact that they were missionaries. They were a real asset to the city and no local official would have any incentive to get rid of them.

Comparisons to other countries are difficult. This is way off topic, but in the US there isn't a huge effort to crack down on illegal workers. The illegal worker uses someone else's social security number and no one in the government checks to make sure that the name of the worker matches the name assigned to that number...or how someone could be working in two places at once. The employer gets in trouble the most. If you're on a tourist visa and get paid in cash no one will find out you're working illegally...but that should go for China as well.

I don't think an American would be sent to a Chinese prison and have to eat cockroaches or something, but would probably face deportation.
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erinyes



Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 272
Location: GuangDong, GaoZhou

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally know a lady who was imprisoned! The school was in the process of getting a visa, but she started a little early. I can't imagine what would have happened the cops thought she was doing it intentionally. She was kept and questioned for about 48 hours, but then they let her go.

I think she also cried a lot and I think someone took pity on her (a single mother with 2 kids) and let her go without too much fuss.
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erinyes hopefully that case is the exception. I am sure that there are a few such cases around but generally speaking a fine and deportation are the course of action for most westerners. Illegal workers from other countries are not always so lucky.

Quite clearly working illegally is not in any teacher's best interests. Sure you can get away with it and some do for many years, but its not until something bad happens that you find how important it is to have been working legally. If you are the victim of a crime, an unscrupulous employer, an accident etc. you may find that you are deported quicker than you can resolve those issues, and if you have a relationship with a local or even just a nice little set up for yourself, it may become more and more difficult over time to have that yanked away from you.
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jeffinflorida



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if you are working illegally you should still have a contract.

Legality aside, the contract spells out the agreement you have with the school / employer and you have a document that details what you agree upon.

With a contract you have something in writing that says you agree to work so many hours for so much money and on so many days.

Even if you are a scab worker you need a contract to avoid any "Misunderstandings" with your employer - it will make your relationship much smoother.

Imagine you are working without any written agreements and after a few months you or the employer may forget what you originally agreed on.

Get a contract, even if you are teaching on a tourist or f visa.


Quote:
Our jails are cleaner..
Once spent a night in the Dade County Jail - Miami, Florida... A pigpen, dirty filthy, inmates sleeping on the floor, wall-to-wall people and dirt.
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jeffinflorida



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="A'Moo"]
Quote:


Did "H" drive you down there himself, in the Hummer?
"Where are you taking me?"
"Where I'M taking you,you'll have lots of time to think about what you've done".....


Some 300 pound black female police officer from the Miami Dade PD...

It was a "Misunderstanding..."
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rossttuedu



Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Tianjin

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came over on a tourist visa and am now working. I got my residency papers without issue the day I arrived and my tourist visa has been converted to a business visa since my stay is less than 6 months. I have been to the PSB a total of three times. Once to the local PSB to get the residency papers and then to the Tianjin City PSB twice to get registered for the business visa conversion. I have not had any problems at all with this and have already started working and making money. Ill advised for some? Maybe. But I will probably be doing it again unless I decide to get a full time work visa for this fall.
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