Job Discussion Forums

[G Cthulhu]

[cafebleu]

No, I don`t think there is `one true English out there` but I know what IS English in its casual or slang sense and I know what isn`t. A number of mistakes have been creeping into even accepted casual ways of using English and sorry to disappoint you as you obviously thought you were putting me in my place, but `anyways` isn`t one of them.

Unless you count it as valid Japlish but it is not even Japlish. As I pointed out, there is a tendency among Japanese speakers to make plurals where only the singular form is applicable and a tendency to drop the s from plural words. `Anyways` sounds like this kind of English - which is not English, whether formal, casual or slang.

Hmm - who is grumpy, I wonder? At least when I reply to people`s posts I reply to a substantial matter, and points regarding the English used are not the main focus of my post. Unlike yours ....

[cafebleu]

Oh and I enjoyed 3rd eye`s comment about even `dark people having a light inside them somewhere`.

So now he has jumped to labelling people who give the different sides of life in Japan (ie not simply the rosy, surface one) to newcomers, `dark`.

Dear me - even coming from 3rd eye that has an evangelical fundamentalism that makes me wonder just what he is doing posting on a board meant for thinking adults with different perspectives and with some critical faculties.

Still - it takes all kinds to make the world such a diverse place although if such posters had their way, you wouldn`t hear any diverse opinions about Japan.

[denise]

Sigh.

[cafebleu]

Sorry for being so rational Denise.

Next time I promise to deliver a long rambling message like those of 3rd eye accusing those who disagree with me of `having darkness inside them, causing social problems` and any number of other fundamentalist type attacks without actually analysing the content of their messages.

Is that better?

[J-Pop]

[J-Pop]

[cafebleu]

Welcome J Pop! Feel free to comment if you want - I have no problem with exchanging words with anybody on the eslcafe as you`d know!

[3rdEye]

I sincerely apologise to everyone as this post goes a bit off of the original thread. This thread started off as a city vs country question, but it seems to have become a question of the previous poster's offensive and hurtful behaviour. This previous poster continues to spin around and around within his/her vicious circle of negativity, which now seems to be directed at anyone she/he doesn't like (whether "Japanese" or "foreigner"). Should we leave him/her down there in a miserable limbo? I often wonder how to reply to that negative poster's troubling discriminatory attitudes? Based on the responses in this thread, it seems that almost all of the posters in here clearly do not agree with cafebleu's offensive attitude. I suppose not too many people are fond of listening to her kind of bitter remarks after all. (I am doubly sorry, as I have by now clearly singled her out by name.) Reading through cafebleu's posts reveals negativity, resentment, bitterness and prejudice. Her resentment leads her to make many bizarre statments. She claims that I am not clearly pointing out the problems. So then, I will point out some of the following direct quotations of cafebleu, and I mostly leave them to implicate themselves. What I constantly find with cafebleu, as I'm sure others do as well, is that her offensive negativity often comes out so obviously. Her prejudice is so clear to everyone, that it doesn't need much explanation.

[cafebleu]

It is interesting that somebody of such apparently delicate sensibilities as 3rd eye keeps attacking me personally for honest critiques based on my own experiences and those of others in Japan. For somebody who portrays himself as in keeping with Buddhist philosophies, warm feelings, and positivity, he is quite aggressive in his insistence that those who post alternative views of Japanese life are forces of darkness and their debate is `hurtful`.

I think it is clear that my original post which `hurt` 3rd eye so badly was warning of the pitfalls of country life for women. Not all women will experience the frustrated country town gossip who has not anything meaningful to do with her time except talk about others (especially foreigners) in a belittling and sometimes very harmful way. However, some or a few women will. Japanese women can recognise this type of woman and my Japanese female friends have said so.

The reason I talked about women is because I am a woman. The fact is foreign men will not be subject to the same pressures to fit in with the local neighborhood group by virtue of the fact that this kind of thing is seen as the women`s sphere. Again I question how long 3rd eye has lived in Japan because he does not understand this.

Moreover, even if you have lived in Japan for 6 months it will become clear (especially in the very conservative countryside) that expectations of men and women are different. They are even different in the city from a similar situation in a western country. It will also become clear that Japan never went through the sexual revolution, women`s liberation movement, etc, etc, so in any number of ways social and sexual mores are marooned in a kind of time warp. That does not mean foreigners have to accept them or like them even if openly we say nothing to the Japanese.

Everybody will experience Japan differently according to their age, country of origin, and sex. I do not deny the validity of others` experiences for if I do so, it would make me a solipsist along the lines of 3rd eye who whines because I happened to give an alternative view of country living.

My partner is Chinese. He looks Japanese and speaks Japanese much better than I do and is often mistaken for a Japanese until people listen to his accent. His appearance gives him access to the real opinions of any number of Japanese people and he says to me he wishes he did not understand so well. He and I have good Japanese friends. However, for him life in Japan can be hard as he hears so many racist comments about the Chinese here. If he posted on this board and warned others about what general Japanese attitudes are to the Chinese (there are people who don`t think that way as he knows) would he also be attacked by 3rd eye as being a person of darkness, prejudiced, racist, etc, etc?

Anyway, just because 3rd eye does not recognise facts does not mean they do not exist. It seems that the kind of discussion, debate and argument for which this board exists is too much for him - or maybe the real purpose is to feel superior to others. I tend to believe the second.

[guest of Japan]

Can't you both just agree to disagree? This conflict appears to me escalating for no other reason than pride.

[shmooj]

I'm with guest of japan here. We know you both feel slighted by the other but this is an online forum for goodness sakes... anyone worth your respect takes everything here with a pinch of salt anyway. Who are you trying to justify yourselves to?

Hey, for all we know, this could be the same person arguing with their two online alter egos - bizarre.

So much for that thread!

[G Cthulhu]

[3rdEye]

After criticising "generalisations" and strongly asking for clear and specific points, I wonder why cafebleu, when she finally got those clear specific points, did not bother to address all the clear specific points about her discriminatory and prejudiced attitudes and offensive remarks? (Though I found her explaination about her partner balanced and I can understand his experience). In any case, she finally got the specific points that she asked for, but surprisingly she gives mostly generalisations? Why? The specific points about her offensive preconceptions against ethnic groups, age groups and genders were clearly pointed out, but again, she did not bother to address them in detail, nor explain why she tends to say such offensive discriminatory things.

It reminds me of that Iraqi Minister of Information under Saddam Hussein, several months ago in the news. He would make loud public declarations in press conferences, which contradicted what was actually going on in his own government. The whole world knew he was ranting and raving, but he kept on going, kept on with his angry remarks, never stopped, and maybe he even believed his own contradictory words.

As for pointing out prejudice, I'm sure cafebleu knows the importance of pointing out the prejudice in our midst, as that is what she constantly claims to be doing. Accordingly, I am also pointing out the prejudiced points in cafebleu's persistent discriminatory comments against various groups in society. As for pointing put faults, it is odd that for someone who is good at pointing out the faults of others, cafebleu seems to resent having her own faults pointed out by others.

[guest of Japan]

Well, I guess my previous request was too much to ask.