Job Discussion Forums

[saudimad]

Hi all,

As some of u maybe aware there is a Quality in higher education conference happening at one of the new saudi colleges. Many academics have come from abroad to comment on the topic but most of them have no experience in Education in KSA. My question is, is there quality in higher education? if so where? if not why not?

What is the drive behind such a conference?

[007]

[saudimad]

I attended all the days of the conference to see what was happening in KSA and got to speak to much of the ESL department while there. I heard much rambling theory and saudi applause to much that went over their heads. Many nods and smiles but no substance at all. The question still stands, in the view of teachers in KSA, is there any quality in Saudi Education? Why not?

What should al-yamamah be doing when it is said that teacher motivation is at all time low, many teachers are so fed up that they are leaving and policies are being thrown out the window? (so i hear)

[007]

[dmb]

[Cleopatra]

[scot47]

I can say that my Saudi students are a lot nicer to work with than their agemates in Scotland or elsewhere in Europe !

[007]

[cmp45]

Didn't you just answer your own questions 007?

Yes students in the west are much more confrontational not only because of the "bad" influences so pervasive in the society such as drugs, alcohol, sex and guns etc., but also because students in the west have been taught at a much earlier age to openly question and be more critical by engaing in debate and learning through critical thought processes. They are much more free to talk about virtually anything they like.

In KSA students have yet to get to that point because society in general does not condone open critcism or debate; as well there are so many topics that are taboo and debate is considered controversial. KSA students for the most part are much more polite and quiet becausee they have been taught not to be controversial or question authority; openly anyways. They do not feel comfortable with it, nor do they have the skills to debate or think critically. Most just have not reached that level, but it is slowly changing...as was stated by Cleo, this issue of quality has to be put in proper persective, give the country time to develop a quality educational system.

The other day I taught an intermediate ESL class and the topic was on the issue of "garbage" needless to say I spoke passionately about the topic and tried my best to engage the students by asking some rather blunt questions regarding what were some of the problems that garbage caused and what were some of the solutions to the problem? Not only in KSA, but the world in general. There was only one student that chose to confront me and we proceeded to have a lively debate. His argument was that he was not personally responsible for the garbage problem and proceed to defend his logic as flawed as it was, I was happy to let him speak and try to debate the issues from his perspective. After all they are learning to speak English! I later thanked him for his effort at debate. His argument may have been flawed, but his effort at debate was commendable.

Most of the topics that would be of interest to students are off limits, therefore it is hard to engage students and get them interested in thinking critically or passionately about anything. Most are rather shy about stating their opinions and if the topic is boring; forget it! They stare at you like you are from an other planet! I guess in some regards we are!

[Cleopatra]

[cmp45]

In general you are correct, debate in its self is not so taboo; it depends upon the particular class and the various personalities of the students and obviously what the topic of debate is, but I still have to stand by my own personal experience that "most" students I have taught do not know how to debate topics for lack of critical thinking skills, because for the most part students do not get enough practice in expressing their opinions or knowing how to think beyond the surface of what is stated in the text as true or false and "most" students never question what they are told. Yes I admit the higher the mastery of the English language and with more practice; the more adept at debate they will be. Students in general, in my opinion just don't engage in debate all that much. Maybe it's the boys that don't and perhaps the girls are more expressive and unafraid regarding debate and have developed their thinking skills to a higher level.

I didn't say that students don't have the "ability" to think critically (did I???) if so i meant to say most students have yet to develope their ability/critical thinking skills.... to reason and probe beyond the surface of a topic... in English. There is a definite skill that has to be developed to thinking critically.

For the most part debate has elements of controversy as you have two oposing views...that in its self is controversial from a Saudi perspective. Yes, debate is a controlled argument however, arguing in Saudi culture has strong potential to escalate into something else. It is generally considered an impolite thing to do. Does that stop Saudis from debating? Perhaps not, but in general I think most would tend avoid it.

[Cleopatra]

[007]

[cmp45]

I am an English teacher and my job is to help students to learn the English language through various methods such as debate. Honestly! Cleo, I am amazed at how you twist and mangle what I am trying to say.

Of course debate is in its self something we all do with varying degrees of intelligence and people of all cultures and at all levels can debate in all languages of their choice. That is not the issue here. The point I am making at the "college" level here in Saudi Arabia students are learning/ studying English therefore are encouraged and expected to try to develope their English skills such as thinking critically using debate as a method of developing their usage of the English language. In my view students debating about grades may be ligitimate, but in all honesty...is a weak argument. You obviously missed my point entirely!

[Cleopatra]