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gregmcd101
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Ireland (for now)
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| eslstudies wrote: |
Sheeba [and I'm not joining the "lets use the poster's user name for childish games" exercise] seems to believe that a 10-20% a year increase is in order for anyone who gets re-hired. She [at a guess] has had little experience in teaching outside China.
Meanwhile, Sheeba and the OP fail to address a number of points I've made in my attempt to get some rational debate going on this issue. The OP refuses to come to the party by talking about his job and qualifications. To what extent one year rates as significant experience, thus making him worthy of a raise, is yet to be established.
Sheeba somehow "knows" that the lawyer is new to China. How does she know that? She totally ignores the points I make because she has no argument.
nonsense like this doesn't help.
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sheeba wrote:
People who don't think you should get a raise in yout position are either incompetent teachers (you don't sound like that ) or have little self respect . |
Explain that! And "blatent" is not a typo. |
Bsc. Hons, M.Phil. Genetics. Significant teaching experience in British Universities. the lawyer is brand new (first week of teaching now) in excess of 60 retired and thinking of fleeing. I have no wish to converse with you but - in the spirit of furthering your vitriole supply required information. I refused nothing - i was simply not online |
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gregmcd101
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Ireland (for now)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| sheeba wrote: |
Greg . I can't believe some of the tripe i read on this forum sometimes . Of course you should get a raise .
i am at my Uni for the 3rd year now in a row. My salary went up 500 after the first year and I negotiated a return flight instead of a single .
You have to remember the level of the position you are working . There is only so much they will pay for that position .
But if the lawyer gets 6000 then why shouldn't you after you've proved yourself over a year . I would go for 6000.
BTW -
Who cares if a lawyer is working at a University . We're TESL professionals and that is a completely different thing . My CELTA course is worth more than a professional lawyer , accountant etc when teaching English here AND my experience is worth even more .
I have been talking about another raise but I think I'm at the max that they'd pay for this position . What has been suggested to me is that I design a curriculum for an EAP course (which I am doing) and this position could pay more than ESL classes . I'm designing this curriculum for my current ESL studies anyway so I'll do it and see what they say .
What I'm saying is perhaps you need to try and find a different position if you want to increase pay later on in your career ( I know I will) but as a mark of respect to you an increase in pay is something you should ask for . If they don't increase my pay every year they know I'm gonna go so they'll do whatever they can to accomodate me .
People who don't think you should get a raise in yout position are either incompetent teachers (you don't sound like that ) or have little self respect . |
Thank you Sheeba - this is the kind of advice i sought - sometimes, on my occasional vists, this board reminds me of the student bar in Liverpool - one must encounter some unpleasant people with a broom handle up there ass and a massive chip on their shoulder - but - there is plenty of decent folk in the room too. Ignore the bitterness say I. Basically, I came here for a year for the hell of it - but I like it and fancy a second year and want what a respectful increase - it was a simple request for information which seems to have brought out some peed off people with issues - Meh |
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Vandros
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Your spot on about the bitter people here, I actually got attacked in my very first posting here because I used a smiley winky face at the end of one of my messages, and because I failed some kind of "introduction" protocal, and it was an attack, bigtime. Then the poster who attacked me went on to say that my advice was unsound, not because it was wrong, but because I had not been here for long, so I must have gotten it elsewhere. All that because I had failed to disclose all my personal details to his or her's satisfaction.
You have to watch yourself here, thats for sure, a lot of the folks here have their own very subjective ideas on what is appropriate behavior, what is not, and they seem to think everyone should know their rules. Not only that, but a lot of the folks here are quite quarrelsome, and just plain trouble maker types. It's a little bizarre really. |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| gregmcd101 wrote: |
| [ it seems to be English degree holders pissed off that people with different qualifications get better deals, i think. I Guess China is to blame for recognising what people in the west have known for an age. |
You really are contradicting yourself:
-lawyer gets more than you. He's Old [!], retired [!], so can't be any good. Your ego takes a battering. A lawyer gets more than a geneticist!
-English degree holder with post grad TESOL agrees with similarly qualified sheeba that Chinese hirers don't hire teachers, just white faces. This is China wide. It may take more than one year to find it out though.
Greg uses this information to laud the insight of Chinese educators.
Anyway, let us know how the raise goes. If it comes out of the President's entertainment fund [unlikely], cool.
If it costs a gate attendant or kitchen hand, or possibly both, their jobs, well at least your honour is satisfied. And remember, if someone's post seems to vaguely support you, quote it in full!
Meanwhile, I'm going back to writing my genetics textbook, for which I'm well qualified. Two degrees, you know. |
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JJ711
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| And those without Education, English or Applied Linguistics degrees should all be very thankful that a university will even hire them to teach English, regardless of second or third year raises. It's an easy ride; just don't allow your ego to get in the way. Anyone can be an English Star in China. |
Strangely, some people have somehow managed to convince themselves (although certainly not everyone) that their special academic focus has endowed them with comprehensive English reading, writing, speaking, and teaching ability superior to the science (and other) majors. It's a false premise that simply isn't true. I apologise to the OP for deviating from the original topic. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Never quite understood the boasting about advanced Uni degrees in these forums....You paid $3000 a month for schooling, and now you are making $900 a month, and have no pastime greater than insulting those who came here for the right reasons-learning Chinese and getting laid....Please, try not to degrade those without your qualifications, Teaching English in China is not teaching the writings of Locke and Rousseau back home....And no, I don't have a degree. I don't need one..... |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I think Amoo has summed it up.
China, the lowest common denominator. |
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Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| China, the lowest common denominator. |
I've yet to see university positions in other countries (expect for a post at Southern Magnetic Pole University) which require fewer qualifications than China. Photocopy someone's degree, claim to have experience, and many (mind you not all) places will take you.
China is easy. And why shouldn't it be? A less than rigorous education system certainly should not make many demands on the quality of its FTs. This semester I asked the students about the teaching approaches of their previous FTs. One class has already had three FTs, and all just dutifully read from the book, had students fill in the blanks, and occasionally lectured about hot dogs -- and in one case -- god.
For a year or two -- or as early retirement --China can be a good. As for a career in teaching, the place seem frustrating at best.
I never imagined that I would miss my small Korean classes. But after today's first session with a group of 36 entirely impolite college students, the antics of elementary aged Korean kids almost seem civilized. |
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DistantRelative
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Shaanxi/Xian
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Vandros wrote:
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Your spot on about the bitter people here, I actually got attacked in my very first posting here because I used a smiley winky face at the end of one of my messages, and because I failed some kind of "introduction" protocal, and it was an attack, bigtime. Then the poster who attacked me went on to say that my advice was unsound, not because it was wrong, but because I had not been here for long, so I must have gotten it elsewhere. All that because I had failed to disclose all my personal details to his or her's satisfaction.
You have to watch yourself here, thats for sure, a lot of the folks here have their own very subjective ideas on what is appropriate behavior, what is not, and they seem to think everyone should know their rules. Not only that, but a lot of the folks here are quite quarrelsome, and just plain trouble maker types. It's a little bizarre really. |
Along with everything else you now turn out to be dishonest. Big diff between you and Greg. He came here asking for help (help he's gotten). You on the other hand showed up here out of nowhere and started dispensing advice and commenting (in a very crude, patronizing manner I might add) as if you actually knew what you were talking about. To this day you have yet to supply us with any information about yourself (i.e. where you've worked anywhere in Asia, where you are working now, how long? etc...).
As far as I'm concerned your just some pimply faced wanna-be, sitting in a dorm room, or the family basement, hoping desperatly to be accepted by our little group here.
I for one am not going to make it that easy for you. As far as I'm concerned you are the worst kind of Troll and I'm going to make it my mission to follow you around and warn others about accepting advice from someone that's yet to prove they are in any way qualified to dispense with it. You most likely don't give a rip about the integrity of this board, but I do.
Ming Bai Ma?
Shawn |
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jammish
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 1704
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| gregmcd101 wrote: |
In all honesty, if you are talking about making worthwhile money 17, 000 is a joke if you actually wanna make some money worth taking out of China. Im not overly worried by money to secure my future or anything like that, but on principle want to get paid a better local salary - they want to keep me (or so they say and my instinct is that they are good people) i want to see if they are prepared to meet that with hard cash - an ego thing perhaps... |
Er, on 17,000 you could quite comfortably save 14,000 per month, which works out at savings of almost 12,000 pounds per year. That's quite a lot more than most working people could save in Britain. |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Shan-Shan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| China, the lowest common denominator. |
One class has already had three FTs, and all just dutifully read from the book, had students fill in the blanks, and occasionally lectured about hot dogs -- and in one case -- god.
For a year or two -- or as early retirement --China can be a good. As for a career in teaching, the place seem frustrating at best.
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Its difficult to take the China EFL scene seriously, and more difficult still to be taken seriously, when your "colleagues" are those described by Shan-Shan. No wonder students regularly regard FT classes as an easy ride, and Chinese English teachers resent these unqualified, coming to get laid [A Moo's description] foreigners making 2 or 3 times their salary! If you were a fully qualified teacher of Mandarin in, say, the UK, how would you feel about unqualfied Chinese coming in on 3 times your salary on the basis that they are "native speakers"? I guess there'd be a strike!
My Chinese colleagues and students were amazed to find that my "real" job was as an English teacher, that I could deconstruct a text, that I knew all the verb tenses, not to mention the different uses of active and passive voice. And I could teach these things without being boring.
Meanwhile, Larry, the MA in Philosophy from Yale, was next door droning on about how lucky the students were to have him, as American English was the purest form. Then he'd finish the class 15 minutes early so he could get to the head of the lunch queue. Marco, the Physics major from Canada was too wrecked to even make it to class, and Chet, the American with the fake degree, was watching Futurama in the office while a few optimistic students waited in the classroom. Some of these Jiangxi farm boys were having their education funded by sisters working in Guangdong sweat shops, and yes, they really wanted to learn English!
These three people are real names, real characters.
So yes, charlatans have given EFL a terrible name in China. And when one mixes with clowns, its difficult not to be mistaken for one. |
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Vandros
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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The only person I see desperately seeking acceptance is you.
The talk about pimply faced people in dorms is far too personal not too be about you.
Who are you, the Daves ESL police? Your gonna follow me around and give me a hard time? Dont you have a life? Doesn't even saying that your going to do that make you a loser?
I dont see any integirty in you, I see someone who is so insecure that they have to attack anyone and everyone who does not meet their arbitrary standards. You forget, I am a therapist, do you really want me to disect you? What am I saying, of course you do, attention is what you are seeking.
Look distant relative, or whatever your real name is, I dont know you, but I have reviewed your posts, and you have a real habit of attacking basically anyone and everyone. You look for excuses, reasons, to vent your anger and frustration. Your very angry with how your life has turned out, aren't you?
I feel sorry for people like you, I think you not only have too much time on your hands, but your a control freak, and you use this board to exercise that need for control. Very likely in real life your a passive agressive type person, who is not able to exert themselves or any type of authority. Others have pointed out your intense need to confront and be adversarial with others, it's not just me.
You really must be incredibly insecure to constantly try and get into pissing contests with people. What an intense inferiority you must have to resent others their experience and education, whatever area it might be in. I think that your intense suspicion of others and doubt of their honesty, without even knowing them, stems from your own difficulty with honesty. You know what people say about people who constantly suspect others of being untrustworthy, usually it is because they themselves are.
I think most of the people here have your number, but seeing as you only want attention and to be rocognised in some way as being worthwhile and intelligent, I guess any attention is good attention for someone as sad and pathetic as youtself.
Yeah, you keep peddling your BS about how your protecting this board, I only see one person without integrity, and thats you. Get some help, there are not therapists too many therapists in china of much worth, but I would be willing to counsel you online. Consider my offer, it is a serious one. In the meantime, I think you spend too much time online. Good day. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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eslstudies wrote:
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| If you were a fully qualified teacher of Mandarin in, say, the UK, how would you feel about unqualfied Chinese coming in on 3 times your salary on the basis that they are "native speakers"? I guess there'd be a strike! |
How far would a Mandarin teacher in England go if he did not speak a word of English? I,for one, think that students of Mandarin in England would prefer to have a bilingual educator, one well versed in the nuances of both languages, than have someone with a B.A. in Mandarin from the University of Maoming-Bakhap campus..... |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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See A Moo, don't go to university and you can't follow an analogy.
The fully qualified teacher of Mandarin is a British national, a native English speaker, in the same way that qualified Chinese English teachers are native speaking Chinese nationals.
You just focus on one thing at a time, and at the moment it's getting laid. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Please forward a list of these Native-English speaking, fluent in Mandarin, British nationals who are working for 250 quid a month.....In England...After 4 years of higher education....And provide me a listing of Chinese schools willing to hire Chinese nationals to teach, on a pay scale commensurate to that of foreigners....
Regards
A'Moo
Last edited by A'Moo on Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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