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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: Re: ????? |
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| tw wrote: |
| abusalam4 wrote: |
| Are you talking about the residence permit (the small green booklet issued by the local Gong-An) when yiu have a Z visa in your passport? |
They still issue that??? 
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Yes, the P.S.B. still do issue green residence permits; as recently as spring of last year I had colleagues from a training centre who had been issued such residence permits.
But abusalam seems to be ignorant about the situation that obtains for the majority of FTs: a residence permit sticker similar to the visa gets stuck in your passport, thereby eliminating the need to carry two documents on you travels in China! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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CJ first you wrote this:
| cj750 wrote: |
| I have left mine with work units for the last few years and never needed it in any way..and unless you form a complant as to working conditions though the labor board/or officially exchange cash..then it may never be needed.. |
And then you wrote this:
| cj750 wrote: |
| I called the labor board and there is no requirement to show a FEC to file a claim... |
You seem to be arguing with yourself there cj. I haven�t seen anyone else here suggest that you would need any such documents to lodge a claim�I certainly didn�t.
| cj750 wrote: |
| ...the local PSB informed there is no requirement for the school to provide you with the FEC.. |
Once again no one has suggested otherwise so I am not exactly sure what your point is.
Although there may be no law or regulation that stipulates that the school must give you this document, there is also no law or regulation that stipulates that they must keep it themselves. So it becomes a choice, and given the choice I can�t see any advantage to allowing the school to keep it. You might find that you need it yourself, or you might not. But I would rather have it in my possession and never use it than to find that I needed it but couldn�t get it.
So if you are happy to hand it over then that�s fine with me, but I wouldn�t as I don�t see any need to. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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all due respect to 750 motorcycles, this one seems to be running in her own circles again 
mr buxiban, even though i've got to p*ss on your work experience in china, i need to praise some of your legal knowledge about FTs administrative issues here 
now, if we talk about FEC, it is the FT's document and it does carry his/her photo on...it's her/his to keep it....schools like keeping it and they might've a few reasons ....i do believe that the booklet says it belongs to the FT, so he/she has got to keep it ....anyone else keeping it would be "unlawful" (in china) 
speaking of the laws in china
and
cheers and beers to all hard working FTs in china 
_____________________________________________________________
FEC is to make us look professional |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You seem to be arguing with yourself there cj. |
that is the prob with this kind of exchange..i am not arguing with anyone ..trying to discover ..that's all..but if you want to characterise an exchange of information as a conflict..then I would guess it would serve your purpose...
if you think you need the book then try and keep it..I am just saying in my search ..I have not found anything other than cost savings in the past and currently if you have the additional paperwork to exchange money and it is stated that it should be returned to the org..and is only used for foreign Expert ID/ and will not be accepted as a general purpose ID..if it pit you against the org..in a conflict as to who hold the book..it is not worth the aggravation as it is not that often and if needed the schools can provide the FT with his book ...
| Quote: |
| i do believe that the booklet says it belongs to the FT, so he/she has got to keep it ....anyone else keeping it would be "unlawful" (in china) |
this is mis information and no where is this stated..but as to dealing with the law..if lost there are procedures which the FT has to go through ..such as issuing a statement to a newspaper...and investigation and a reissue hearing...good reason not to hang on to useless paperwork..
but hey..if keeping the book or making a point to a organisation is that important to the FT..then by all means obligate yourself for the responsibility of a long and tedious procedure if the book you have taken charge of is lost or stolen..a book that does a FT little good and is used only to verify the FTs classification as to his work unit...a procedure that is only useful to a school when it is under inspection ... |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| that is the prob with this kind of exchange..i am not arguing with anyone ..trying to discover ..that's all.. |
Fair enough. Re-reading your posts again I can see how you could be 'thinking out loud'. Probably best to end such posts with a question mark though - as to me and probably other users here it seemed that you were stating one fact in one post, and the opposing as fact in your next posting. Quite confusing.
| cj750 wrote: |
| but hey..if keeping the book or making a point to a organisation is that important to the FT..then by all means obligate yourself for the responsibility of a long and tedious procedure if the book you have taken charge of is lost or stolen..a book that does a FT little good and is used only to verify the FTs classification as to his work unit...a procedure that is only useful to a school when it is under inspection ... |
I am not familar with the process of getting a replacement but assuming what you write above to be accurate and not just your writing down thoughts again, I don't really agree with your suggestion that this is a reason to let the school hold the documents.
I assume that it doesn't matter who loses the documents and that you would still be the one who has to seek the replacements in the manner you mentioned above. In that case I would certainly want to keep them in a safe place myself as I think it more likely that a school could misplace them. But that may be just me.
Counter to all of that are the potential negative aspects of the school holding the documents. It's a no brainer to me if you have the choice then take the documents. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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i went to a bank today to open a CD with some of the extra cash we have left over and just for kicks took the FEC...when ask for two forms of ID...I produced the FEC..to which they informed me that they would need an additional ID that would be more reliable..they settled on a credit card with my name on it...
if you think that getting your FEC is that needed and the school is not intent on holding it to the point of causing bad feelings ..then it would be neither here nor there if you want to keep it on your person or in your room..but the safety of these apartments that foreigners stay i..or dorm rooms that they are housed ..may not be safe to insure documents are not stolen..if you want to keep any papers..then a safe or a strong box would be advisable ..better yet is a safety deposit box...
| Quote: |
| am not familiar with the process of getting a replacement but assuming what you write above to be accurate and not just your writing down thoughts again, I don't really agree with your suggestion that this is a reason to let the school hold the documents |
Clark..do you even process one of these jewels..the replacement procedure is printed in the back...
| Quote: |
| I think it more likely that a school could misplace them |
the only schools who have kept them...at least in my case...have kept them locked up in the office..in case the PSB came by...
the way I see it is ..there is no need to raise a fuss about the school keeping the book unless you need it to exchange money..and even then as it has no real benefit as to your work or changing jobs or leaving the country..I would not bitc h if the school felt better holding..... |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, everyone pull out your FEC right now. I'll wait . . . .
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Got it? Good. Here we go:
First page: "Foreign Experts Certificate" "Foreign Experts Working in the Fields of Culture and Education"
Page 2: There's that ugly mug we all try and ignore. And the school's official red chop and the issue date.
Page 3: Okay, I see my name, my chinese name (can't read it so . . . ???), my birthdate, my sex (yes, please!), my passport number, my employer and my position, my address.
Page 4: Family members pictures, names, and passport numbers.
Page 5: When my FEC expires, as well as extension dates and that lovely red chop again.
Page 6 and 7: Aha, here are the pages you need in order to exchange money at the BoC. You can exchange once for every month that your contract is good for. In my case, my current contract started in June, 2006, and I have exchanged 6 times. I can exchange 6 more times until my contract expires.
Page 8: "Extra remarks" - - I don't know about yours, but that page is blank.
So, some of you saying that our FECs say this or that . . . well, I'm assuming all of ours are similar if not pretty much exactly the same. You can use it for ID, but most places would rather see your passport/RP, I'd imagine. You DO need it for cash exchanges unless you're really cozy with your local BoC tellers. You could have your school keep it for you or you can keep hold yourself.
Okay, are we all clear now? I'm going to put mine back in my desk drawer on top of my bank passbook and my passport and under my medical book and my certificate allowing me to have my satellite dish. Oh the paperwork! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:37 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Kev.
CJ nobody here is suggesting that the FEC is the most important document that a foreign teachers possesses. My point is that it is a formal document and that there is a choice whether the school keeps it or you keep it. In the OP's case the school seems to be suggesting that they want to hold onto it and in my opinion the teacher is better to hold onto it him or herself as you just may need it.
| cj750 wrote: |
| Clark..do you even process one of these jewels..the replacement procedure is printed in the back... |
I have never lost mine nor needed a replacement and as such have not been through the process personally. As such I can't comment on the actual process. CJ have you been through the process of getting a replacement and if so why not post it here in detail as it may be helpful for others? If you haven't been through the process then why get your knickers in a knot about it?
| cj750 wrote: |
| the way I see it is ..there is no need to raise a fuss about the school keeping the book unless you need it to exchange money..and even then as it has no real benefit as to your work or changing jobs or leaving the country..I would not bitc h if the school felt better holding..... |
Good luck if you let the school keep it, things sour, then you find the need to change money. Sure there are alternative methods to changing money but if you hold onto the the FEC then you have it when and if you need it.
In my opinion the best way to avoid problems is to be smart by avoiding them. Why leave yourself vulnerable? Hold onto all relevant documents yourself and make copies of all of them to keep in a seperate safe place. |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| I was able to use my FEC to open an account at the Postal Bank in Dalian. But here in Changchun, a passport is required by the Postal Bank. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I have never lost mine nor needed a replacement and as such have not been through the process personally. As such I can't comment on the actual process. CJ have you been through the process of getting a replacement and if so why not post it here in detail as it may be helpful for others? If you haven't been through the process then why get your knickers in a knot about it? |
the requirements are written on the last page ..inside back cover..but the question was do you have one? At this point and by evidence ..I am Beijing to think your "advice" is based on what you read on the Internet...
The local FEB or PSB can give guidance on lost documents..the FEC is easier to replace as it does not require the investigation that the old Residency books did..
and as to getting upset..what I have said over and over..is that if you think you need it with your other papers then by all means go to the mat with your school and fight for it.(Clark ..when I give my opinion ..it is just that ..an opinion..and is based on what I would do in the same situation..).I am just suggesting that following the advice of pushing your school for possession is a conflict that will aid the holder ..little...the the process of replacing one ..is long and tedious ..not as much as the old Residency book was but still a hassle that your obligated to complete if your the holder..not so if the school holds it..
I have insisted I hold onto all papers and have gone through a conflict to do so..and if wasn't worth it..again..THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING>>>
As for exchanging money..I have already stated..if that is the case ..the FEC has to be set up for the exchange prior to you receiving the paperwork..as for my self..I don't get paid in RMB so exchange is easy...
It is clear from my post that I do not trust the work culture in china..and if there were real reason to hold this book beyond its exchange and limited ID power..i would have posted my opinion on that...
Now I would ask you..why is this "one Upmanship" that accompanies every thread you participate on continues until you try and assert your authority..is it a method of claiming experience so as to garner additional sign ups for your play for pay website...when someone comes to this website..it is for the intended purpose to get opinions and not the final word...as there is no final word in china..and everyone will find an unique experience..
So I will say again..all I have done is report my experiences and give an opinion on those experiences...
Why not research the law and inform the board if they have the legal right to keep the book...(which really doesn't enter into play) but I can tell you that schools, are under the assumption that because they pay for the book, and the book is issued to the authority of the school...and the book is technically on loan..and has to be returned to them ..that they own the book....many schools will withhold part of your final salary or bonus ..to insure the safe return of that book..
So again..it is up to the FT..if he wants to be in charge of this "FORMAL" paperwork.. |
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