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elliot_spencer
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 495
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Tokyo and 250,000yen |
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Hey guys, just after reading this borad, I'm getting the idea that earning about 250,000 a month is hard. So, I pose a question. Is 250,000yen for a single person with no debt etc enough to live on and have a good time in the eastern capital or not? Could it be that Taipei is the new Tokyo, I mean salaries there are 65000NT$ (230,000yen) and from what I hear it's 1/2 the price.
Like to hear your thoughts, esp those in Tokyo and those who've been to taipei |
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elliot_spencer
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 495
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Another thing I've noticed, is most ALT jobs and high-school jobs do not offer pay during summer and winter vacations, or, offer 1/2 pay (187000 yen) for the vacation month. Now I know that Taiwan offers no holiday pay what-so-ever but, with a salary of 65000NT$ (230,000 yen) with a low cost of living, tachers can save and be ready for this with out leading too frugal a life, whereas in Japan, how do you cope? |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| elliot_spencer wrote: |
| whereas in Japan, how do you cope? |
Where I was, we ate our young.
HTH.
G. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| elliot_spencer wrote: |
| Another thing I've noticed, is most ALT jobs and high-school jobs do not offer pay during summer and winter vacations, or, offer 1/2 pay (187000 yen) for the vacation month. Now I know that Taiwan offers no holiday pay what-so-ever but, with a salary of 65000NT$ (230,000 yen) with a low cost of living, tachers can save and be ready for this with out leading too frugal a life, whereas in Japan, how do you cope? |
Real wages for ALTs have dropped when you factor in cost of living increases, exchange rates, and the hidden cost cuts made by dispatch companies. The real culprit is the Japanese government, which privatized parts of the system, allowing the floodgates to open for dispatch companies. Dispatch companies take a significant chunk of the ALT pie from the Board of Education. They take it (or steal it) from ALTs in more ways than are visible. Yes, the standard 250,000/month is about 50,000 shy of the JET ALT income. But Dispatch firms, in their bid to win contracts with BOEs, also slash holidays, paid sick time, housing allowances, travel subsidies and just about everything else the ALT deserves to be getting. Dispatch firms are all about profit motive. Government-run JET, is not. The difference in real yen is stark.
The JET ALT is a civil servant, hired directly by the BOE, so is treated/paid accordingly. The INTERAC (and other dispatch firms) ALT is an outsourced (scab) worker hired under private company contract (in conjunction with the BOE). The BOE thinks it is saving money. The company is making alot of money. The ALT loses big time.
No, at 250,000/month, it's not quite being forced to eat one's young, but you'll be eating alot more box noodle and drinking alot more rice/corn beer under Interac than you will under JET. But then, for 21 year old kids fresh out of college with a BA, most of whom have no concept of career, worker rights, cost of living and professional integrity... I'm sure you could pay 150,000/month and they'd still come thinking they were getting a great deal. |
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kendoman1
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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User N. Ame
You've not been in Japan very long. Have you? The above post is not really correct.
JET Alts are not public civil servants and can't be unless they become Japanese Nationals. JET Alts are hired by Clair which in turn is more or less similar to a dispatch agency.
Dispatch agencies other a product and it's up to the consumer to buy it. They make a profit just like Clair does with JET. JET does pay 300,000 a month, but after taxes and etc it's about 260,000 or so. The same dispatch worker if on NHI can bring home around 230,000.
The JET ALT has less holidays than a dispatch ALT and a JET ALT is not able to take on privates like a dispatch ALT can. They also have more rules and BS to follow.
Also you should ask around what a scab worker is. Dispatch ALTs don't fall under this.
Dispatch ALTs have it alot better than thier Japanese counterparts that work for companies like Parsona and Staff services. Their pay is alot less and they don't get Transportation paid.
Please thing about your statements before posting BS like you did. That is all. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| kendoman1 wrote: |
| JET Alts are not public civil servants and can't be unless they become Japanese Nationals. JET Alts are hired by Clair which in turn is more or less similar to a dispatch agency. |
Wrong. Yes, while it's true that JETs are interviewed and brought over to Japan by CLAIR (a government body, not a private company), the contract JETs have is between them and their BOE. CLAIR does not skim off the top, cut benefits, and so on. Quite the reverse. The federal government shells out alot of money to preferctural BOEs earmarked for local BOEs, including JET ALTs. CLAIR also shares in the cost of the flight, orientation, and other expenses associated with getting the ALT from home country to BOE. But aside from all this, the JET ALT is directly employed by the local BOE. All pay and benefits related to the ALT are paid out by the BOE (i.e, taxpayer yen). CLAIR has zero to do with the contract once the ALT has arrived to his/her BOE. This very much makes JETs civil/public servants. Do I need to give you a definition for public servant? For you to say that Interac and CLAIR do essentially do the same thing indicates that you really don't know what you're talking about.
| kendoman1 wrote: |
| A company like Intera or Altia or the countless other dispatch companies are the contracting organization for the ALT. Dispatch agencies other a product and it's up to the consumer to buy it. They make a profit just like Clair does with JET. |
Why not just come clean and just tell us which dispatch company you represent or work for. Not only do your comments smack of ignorance, but they read like a veiled defense of dispatch companies. Anything more, and I'd say an advertisement. Tell us how the federal government (CLAIR) profits from ALTs in the same way Interac does. This assertion is most curious.
| kendoman1 wrote: |
| JET does pay 300,000 a month, but after taxes and etc it's about 260,000 or so. The same dispatch worker if on NHI can bring home around 230,000. |
Wrong at worst, highly misleading at best. The fact is that JETs all gross about 310,000/month. Dispatch ALTs gross an average of 250,000. The same taxes apply to both. Not all, but most JETs get a generous rent subsidy. As a JET for 3 years, I received a small furnished house at no cost. Most of my JET cohorts within my prefecture received similar deals. Paying 20,000 for rent was considered high. Tell us what kinds of rent subsidies Interac offers. All JETs are given return flights to Japan. Most dispatch ALTs are not. JETs are enrolled in the national health insurance plan, and the BOE pays half that cost. How about dispatch firms?
| kendoman1 wrote: |
| The JET ALT has less holidays than a dispatch ALT and a JET ALT is not able to take on privates like a dispatch ALT can. They also have more rules and BS to follow. |
I'm beginning to think you're a troll, because your assertions have surpassed the ignorance line and are entering the twilight zone. The average JET contract offers 15-20 paid holidays. Many JETs receive other unofficial paid holidays. I know that during summer break, I got 14 days paid holiday over and above my nenkyu. The key word here is paid. Dispatch firms offer a fraction of the nenkyu JET does. The long summer breaks offered by dispatch companies tend to be unpaid leave. Oh, and we haven't even talked about paid sick time (byokyu). JETs tend to get about 25 per year. That's what I had. How many paid sick days does Interac offer? As for rules? How about the rule that most dispatch company ALTs can't take paid holidays, except at designated down times during the year?
| kendoman1 wrote: |
| Please thing about your statements before posting BS like you did. That is all. |
Please look in mirror and read this above sentence back to yourself at least 5 times, realy s l o w l y so you fully comprehend the meaning. |
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kendoman1
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Clair finds ALTs for BOEs the same as a dispatch agency. The dispatch ALTs are paid with the same goverment funds.
When it all comes down to it everyone is doing the same job and being paid with the same funds.
Can you comprehend this or is it all too much for you. Once you've been in Japan for longer than a day or two give me a hollar. |
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ripslyme
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| As a former JET currently working in Japan again (I also have friends that work for Interac), I just wanted to state that I concur with everything User N. Ame has posted so far. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| kendoman1 wrote: |
Clair finds ALTs for BOEs the same as a dispatch agency. The dispatch ALTs are paid with the same goverment funds.
When it all comes down to it everyone is doing the same job and being paid with the same funds. |
That's precisely the point: All ALTs do the same work. But JETs (i.e. those employed directly by BOE) make substantially more than their private dispatch cohorts, not to mention the vast differences in benefits. Yes, the same taxpayer money is involved, but dispatch companies skim a huge percentage off the ALT budget; CLAIR, if anything, subsidizes and raises the ALT budget for BOEs. I outlined some of the details above. I highly encourage you to read those details, ie, if you actually can read. This latest post of yours indicates that you either can't read comprehensively, you're a troll, a dispatch company stooge, or all of the above.
| kendoman1 wrote: |
| Can you comprehend this or is it all too much for you. Once you've been in Japan for longer than a day or two give me a hollar. |
Hahaha... you kill me. I guess you missed the part in my post where I said I was a JET for three years. I worked an additional year for privates. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: Don't spread misinformation!!! |
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This is an awesome forum presenting so many good questions and observations about Japan and the working life, but it sucks when people spread wrong information.
From my own experience as a JET, what User N. Ame describes accords with CLAIR's information as distributed to the JETs and with my own experience.
Kendoman1 wrote
| Quote: |
| When it all comes down to it everyone is doing the same job and being paid with the same funds. |
True, the source is the same, but the distribution of said funds is entirely different between a JET and a BoE, and Interac (or any other dispatch agency) and a contract worker.
First, JETs are hired directly by either the city or prefectural BoE, or in some rare cases, by private schools overseen by the BoE. We are not employees of CLAIR, and this is a fact we are reminded of again and again when it comes to fostering good relations with our schools and BoEs.
The next point is, CLAIR is nothing like Interac. Interac takes a cut of the fee the school pays, decides how many holidays you are going to get, in some instances prorates your salary when you have holidays, and does the payroll. CLAIR does none of these things. Apples and oranges.
About JET salary and benefits, we get 310,000 gross, as User N. Ame stated above, and in most cases, our rent is subsidized. Some JETs pay as little as 10-20,000 yen a month in rent. In addition, many JETs are offered either a subsidized lunch plan at the schools, or are provided with a lunch for free(I was one of these lucky people). Of course, JETs get national health coverage. These considerable benefits are not in the salary per se, but the compensation of subsidized rent, lunch and health coverage (there is additional accident coverage available) put the JET program in a different category from dispatch companies. I would guess the value could add as much as 30,000 yen to your gross.
Confirm the information User N. Ame and I have posted yourself.
http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/faq/faq_01what.html[url]
http://www.jetprogramme.org/documents/pubs/GIH_e_07.pdf |
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Scruffy
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Whirled peas, people. Whirled peas.
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Wasn't there a reeeally long thread where several people argued about what JET is really like just a few weeks ago? I'm getting deja vu. |
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kendoman1
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Ok,
This is taken from Clairs JET website"CLAIR implements the JET programme ALTs,CIRs and Sea are recruited overseas and dispatched to local public bodies across the country". I did see dispatched quoted in the above statement.
So you can call it anything you want I guess, but it's basicaly the same. OK a JETS salary is 310,000 minus taxs,pension,etc comes to around 40,000 yen a month. JET take home pay is around 265,000 period. Some JETs do get rent allowances or etc, but most don't. A JET by Japanese law can't work any outside jobs. A JET basicaly gets national holidays and get what around 12 paid days off. A JET has to put up with alot of BS from their schools and so.
Ok let's look at a dispatch ALT. The basic salary is around 250,000 minus 7 percent tax and minus NHI is around 2,200 yen a month(first year).Let's say 235,000 yen take home a month. Some dispatch ALTs do get rent allowance also, but whatever. Now if a dispatch ALT took on 2 business classes a night Mon-Fri(two hours extra a night) they can add around 150,000 yen a month to their basic salary. Let's see that brings it up to 385,000 a month plus some more if they want to work some on Saturdays.
A dispatch ALT doesn't have to take all the crap from their JTE or Principles. They just refer them to their companies. Most dispatch ALTs get two weeks paid at the end of each semester. It's safe to assume that dispatch ALTs get around six to seven paid weeks of vacation a year plus National holidays and ten paid days after six months of employment.
I have worked as a ALT in the past and now work for a private High School in Tokyo. At my BOE there were three JET ALTs and four dispatch ALTs. It was always funny the sad look on their face when we got to go home early or left to go on our vacations or when they had to put up with all the extra BS at school.
I guess JET is more safe, but we always made more money and had a better life at my BOE. I guess to sum it up JET ALTs are the ones who are afraid to do things in life by themselves. Kinda reminds me of Japanese tourists. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| There's no argument here as far as I can see, just an aggressive troll. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: |
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So, Kendoman, you've not been a JET from the sounds of it...and I'm not sure if many BOEs would employ JETs alongside dispatched AETs...
But whilst we're "comparing", I never found the work on JET particularly onerous; as a dispatch AET however you'll have few if any allies at the BOE - a situation that less pleasant JTEs/schools will take advantage of - and you'll be expected to always be immaculate, punctual, work for every yen etc etc.
To cut a long thread short, the perks and conditions are better on JET. I can't imagine that many would e.g. pass on JET in preference for working for a dispatcher. |
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