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jabberjaw · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 57

That's an interesting point JZer. However, it still doesn't answer the question. Would this Framingham State program in Poland be considered by US community colleges prestigious enough of a qualification for a teacher to move into a gig at a US community college teaching ESL, especially if one were to take the Framingham State commuter program?

redsoxfan · Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia

I believe that FSU recognises this degree as equal to any other Master's degree they offer. Why should it matter if you are a "commuter"? You would be studying with professors from FSU (and professors from other schools in the Northeast, I believe), and you would be studying for a normal number of credit hours. I mean, it's not a correspondence course. It might be true that studying so intensively is not the best way to retain information, but I would guess that the operative factor is credit hours. If FSU says it's a normal degree, then it is. Or so I'd guess...

jabberjaw · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 57

redsox fan or anyone else, do you personally know of anyone who has completed an intensive M.A. program like Framingham's or SIT's and then gone on to teach at a community college in the US?

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

jabberjaw, I can tell you that there are many professional teachers who have earned M.A.'s at Middlebury's summer intensive program. This would include high school language teachers as well as professors and college instrutors. Middlebury offers intensive language studies in German, French, Spanish, and a few other language. Some of Framingham's staff attended Middlebury as well as professors at other universities. Granted that the professors did get PhD's from another school later on. But I think you could find some low level university language instructors with only a degree from Middlebury.

joshsweigart · Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 66

I completed the Framingham M.Ed. here in Poland and I think that it was fairly worthwhile. The important thing to remember if you want to teach at a uni. in the States or abroad is to make and keep your contacts. If you complete any Master's program it isn't so much the name of the school or your concentration but who you know and how you present yourself, your plans etc. Some of the people from my group went on to teach at uni's around the world, work as Language Fellows etc. I think that it was mostly because of their own motivation and passion for teaching that got them these positions.

jabberjaw · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 57

josh, since you completed the program and seemed to more or less like it, perhaps you can comment on some of the negative statements about it.

Lancer wrote: Quote:
They also let us take one required course online at cost only.
My response to that was, "Why would they have charged you any more than cost?"

Lancer wrote: Quote:
And for our last remaining credit, the 20 of us still left were able to pool our resources together and pay for the last professor to come and conduct the course for us in Poland.

And I wrote, "Why should the students have to pay to fly a professor over? Shouldn't Framingham State pay for that?"

Lancer wrote: Quote:
You will probably get the textbooks sooner than I did.
And I wrote, "How long did it take for you to get the textbooks?"

Lancer wrote: Quote:
Also you have to agree as a group which electives you want to select.
And I wrote, "From what I understand from their Web site there is only one elective (the ninth class) and a class you've taken as a graduate class in TESOL or Education at another university can count as one. Please explain the contradiction." Has there been a change in this policy since Lancer took the program?

http://www.mastersinpoland.com/site/892948/page/905398
Quote from the link above: (It's written small and in italics on their Web site.)
* Students only complete eight of the nine courses through the MiP program. The ninth elective can be done directly through Framingham through independent study or by transfering credit from other educational programs, such as a TESOL certification, graduate credit at another university, etc.

Also, guangho wrote: "The guys in charge are respectively a) a nice enough guy with neither the power nor the desire to lead effectively and b) a man who is under the mistaken impression that we are stupid and forgetful, thus not recognizing and remembering the lies he had told us. Part of the problem is that we are hosted by a small school in a small town which simply does not have the pull to place a bunch of foreigners at schools in Poland.�

Also, guangho said, �The program would be in its first year in Poland and run by a Polish Uni. It is a work study program which means teaching at a language school for slave wages and--well, teaching at a private language school, with all the penury, instability, deceit such an enterprise entails.� guangho also said, �The only realistic way to do this program is to secure employment elsewhere and pay the tuition. I know it sounds great to do a free masters, but it's honestly not worth the stress.�

Quote of JZer:
Clearly there were problems in the past but before judging the program one should probably get in touch with people who started the program this school year.
Jabberjaw: Granted Lancer graduated in the summer of 2005 and then there was a management change. However, I haven't heard that the current management is any different than the management guangho was talking about except for the fact that Ernst says he recently became a coordinator. guangho didn't enter the program until the beginning of 2006 and guangho did not indicate that the management has changed since then. If guangho started the program just a little over a year ago and no one has said that the management has changed since then, then I have no reason to believe that it has except for Ernst recently coming on board. Incidentally, I wonder who Ernst replaced and why there was an opening.

JZer wrote: You might be correct but I think that this intensive program expects you to have read the books before you have arrived for the intensive semester. Meaning that the two or three text books for each class should already have been read. As for getting those books, I don't know. You can buy about any book online these days. Furthermore, I think the semester projects are assigned to do after the intensive. Meaning you might have a semester project to do for each class when you return to your current location. You would then submit the assignment via email.

JZer wrote: Of course I have not been on the program. I am sure that Ernst and Lancer can give you better feedback about these things.

jabberjaw: josh, is JZer right about this? How long does it take to get the books? Also, how long after the class would you have to complete the semester project/assignment?

Ernst · Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Poland

I am sorry I don't have the time to address all your questions, JbrJaw. I would like to, though. In your next post could you prioritize them, and I will try to address them in more or less the order that you give them.

With what little time I have let me start from the bottom, and address what I think I can dispatch with quickly:

Books - times vary dep. on the prof and are never here when the first students start asking, which is about 4 months before the class begins. Unfortunately, we are dependent on the Framingham to send us the books. I suppose people could go to amazon.com and get it themselves early, if they wanted to.

The "Ninth Credit" is famous even here. Lots of our present students ask about it, with great wonderment. My personal opinion is that it was the brainchild of some professor who had himself had difficulty writing a thesis, and wanted to have mercy on others. It seems to me that it is a substitute for doing a thesis, which is the other option.

The guy I replaced went home to help his parents as a ballroom dancing instructor.(?) At least, I think that is what I understood. I never met the guy.

The things guangho mentions are not baseless -- during the first round of placements after new people had just begun to run it, the did run into a school whose behaviour was quite unsavoury. The program no longer works with that school, and we have further filtered the schools we work with, eliminating weaker ones and trying to grow ties with the success stories, so less of the people in our program have to be exposed to unproven schools.

Similarly, (and completely off the topic) as we further refine the idea of who this program exists for, we are now applying stricter criteria to the students we select, requiring more teaching abroad experience, to ensure that schools are also getting solid teachers. We feel both sides benefit from this.

Regarding your first questions

joshsweigart · Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 66

Hey,

That ninth Tesol credit thing and the professors flying over at cost and whatnot was sort of unique to our (Lancer, the guy who's now in charge of it, the ballroom dancer and myself) situation. I wouldn't worry about it now because that had more to do with the collapse of our old school. I think that the guy running it now has his act together although we don't keep in touch much. For anyone who is doing it now, I'd go for the thesis if possible even though it is probably a lot of work. Without a thesis to show people the degree will just be a degree. Of course, we didn't do one because we were fed up and just trying to finish ASAP. As far as what goes on now, I really can't comment on it too much because I don't know.

guangho · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 476 Location: in transit

Hiya,

Everything I wrote was a reflection of my experience at that time and place and I stand by it in that context. After six fun-filled months, I signed off the work-study and became a commuter in June of last year. As such, I have no current experience with the work-study program. The people NOW in charge are not the same as the ones I wrote about.

Hope that clears up some confusion.