Job Discussion Forums

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

I'll start by saying I'm bad at finding information on forums. I've searched, and haven't found concrete answers.

I'm in the US now and am wondering who I could get a job from in Japan with some sort of visa/setup help. I'd also prefer to choose where I worked, at least so that I am not in the middle of a metropolitan area. I'm aware of the big companies, but from what I've heard I have no say as to where I would work.

Am I going to be able to find much in the online employment ads, or are those mostly for people already in Japan?

Also, how long does it usually take to actually get to Japan once a job has been found - a couple weeks or many months?

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:10 am Post subject:

Seeing as you're choosy about where you want to work (that would also rule out the JET and TEIJ/Earlham College programs, although chances are that any placement through them would be more rural than urban), you're simply going to have to scour the job ads until you find an employer who's willing to interview and sponsor overseas applicants* (I've never counted, but I'd be pretty surprised if the number of such jobs ever exceeded 5% - if that - of the total listed at any one time on e.g. Gaijinpot, or Jobsinjapan, or on/in the Ohayo sensei newsletter. BTW, what job sites are you aware of and using? I'm assuming that you're checking at least those three).

Assuming that you get lucky, the processing of your COE - 'Certificate of Entitlement' (to a work visa) shouldn't take more than a month or so, after which you'd go to your nearest Japanese embassy or consulate to get the visa entered into your passport. You'd then be ready to fly to Japan and get a 'Period of Stay' (enabling you to reside in Japan for a year) stamped in your passport as you pass through immigration. DO NOT FLY TO JAPAN WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THESE STEPS. (Some employers will assure you that the paperwork can be completed after you arrive, but will then be free to exploit the situation if you are (begin) working illegally, and may even decide to fire you without notice if they don't like the look of you - you could then consider that your "interview"/probationary period LOL).

I was on JET for 3 years and chose to take the return flight home rather than stay on in Japan. It took me about a year (not that I was searching every day!) to find an employer willing to sponsor a new visa, and then I probably only got that job because a colleague that I'd worked with in China happened to have previously been employed at the school in Japan and perhaps vouched for me.

Anyway, I'd say that you'll be needing to apply for as many jobs as possible (basically anything that's advertised), and it could take many months (years even?)...to be honest, you'd probably be better signing your life away for anything up to a year with the bigger chain schools, just to get that initial visa. Once you've got it, you can give your notice at some point (try to be responsible about this, though!) and find a new sponsor.

*Usually such employers need to cast a wider net due being located in smaller or more isolated places (with correspondingly smaller numbers of foreign residents), but their ads - especially when frequent - could be an indication of high staff turnover (=potentially bad conditions).

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Fluffy wrote:

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

Thanks for the very informative replies Cool

I've done some preliminary research into the companies you suggested, and found the following:

INTERAC
Language House Based out of its Head Office in Tokyo, and its eight branch offices located throughout Japan, Interacs rapidly expanding population of approximately 1400 or so ALTs are now working in the following locations throughout Japan: Hokkaido, Akita, Niigata, Nagano, Iwate, Fukushima, Tochigi, Gunma, Ibaraki, Chiba, Tokyo, Saitama, Kanagawa, Yamanashi, Shizuoka, Toyama, Aichi, Mie, Gifu, Shiga, Osaka, Hyogo, Okayama, Hiroshima, Yamaguchi, Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
^^^ I don't know if these are major cities or what...

JAMES ENGLISH SCHOOL
Business English. Explicitly want people good with small talk, which I am not at all good at. Don't think I'll consider this one.

DAVID ENGLISH HOUSE
??????????? - that's what the website said.

PEPPY KDIS CLUB
"Currently, we do not have classrooms in Tokyo city or in Okinawa." That's a good start...
single occupancy, key money secured
Kids, need high energy - but I'm a more relaxed sort. Not sure if kids are my thing, to be honest.

ALTIA
40hr/wk, but 40days paid vacation
Key money paid
All US recruiting is completed...? So not happening any time soon?

JET
Too late... Sad

NOVA
housing
28hr/wk
240
chicago office

ECC
25hr/wk teaching
252000
7wk vacation
no airfare
Toronoto office for hiring (far)

AEON
Year-round recruiting
no airfare
270000
36hr/wk
3wk vacation
key money paid

GEOS
30hr/wk
250000
housing paid
no airfare

Not sure if all the hr/wk are teaching or overall and how much teaching is necessitated. It appears no one pays for airfare (not Korea, apparently). It looks like they all help with housing, though. Payment is all roughly similar. Some have recruiting locations near me (Chicago), some don't.

I'm not sure if any of these companies actually gives a choice as to where you work, or if any are less major city focused than the others.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

So there's not a Hokkaido city in Hokkaido then, I'm guessing.

Details were just for general information, as much for my own sake as anyone else's. And key money and airfare are rather significant concerns of mine, considering my financial situation. Same goes for having recruiting offices nearby or having to spend lots of money traveling to Seattle to do an interview, if they're even going to have one anytime soon. Same goes for how much I make and how much I have to work to make that.

Maybe vacation time wasn't that important, but I'm not sure exactly what was minuscule about the other facts I posted, since the rest of the facts were about where I would be working or what I would be doing, which I consider somewhat important...

Anyway, thanks for the link. I'm getting the vibe that I should just try the big companies and see where it takes me, but I dislike forming opinions like that after only talking with a couple people.

G Cthulhu · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject:

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

I agree with Cthulhu in that you gotta spend something to get something. Nothing is for free. If you have a hard time finding money to get to an interview, maybe you should set your priorities differently, or at least wait quite a bit longer before you know what you know what you want. Employers who come to your country don't care where you live; they expect committed people to go to them for interviews. The USA is not a tiny place, and I believe places like NOVA interview in only a few locations there, but the onus is on you, not them, to get to the interview if you want the job and can't afford to fly here to interview.

If key money is that much of a concern, realize that probably most eikaiwas will provide an apartment already furnished and with key money already paid. Airfare is a rare commodity to expect an employer to pay for (in Japan). Lots of people come here with a visa in hand and a job to start, yet they ditch their employer (sometimes even at the airport) to use that visa elsewhere ("greener pastures"). That's one reason some employers don't interview outside of Japan; they want committed (there's that word again) people who have already take the major step in coming here. Also, that's the reason why some employers offer an end-of-contract bonus which amounts to reimbursing you for airfare. If they give it to you up front, you might bail out on them in the beginning, and where would they be then? Heck, some employers (not recruiters or middlemen) ask for a cash deposit before you leave the USA just because they want some guarantee that you won't back out on them with the visa they've sponsored (and you get that money back).

As to "what I would be doing", eikaiwas are essentially the same. You teach conversational English from noonish to 9pm, you have mediocre books at best, classes have 2 to 10 students, and you are there as an edutainer to keep the clients coming in. The number of classroom hours will vary, but generally it's about 25-30 per week. Sounds like you are shopping around for someone to pay your way here and pay you tons of money for doing the least.

And, no, there is no "Hokkaido City". In fact, as much as a lot of those locations you mentioned could be cities, many could also be prefectures (like Hokkaido).

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

Yes, I am getting a job before I go, and hopefully will be able to save a little (probably not, though), and if not I can still manage with my current finances and credit.

First off, a flight from Chicago to Seattle in any decent time frame is ~$275; Chicago to Denver is $180. The FAQ said a lot of these interviews are 3 day events, so that's with an additional three nights at a hotel, another $300 (if it's 2.5 stars, maybe less if I could find a crappy one nearby wherever the interview would take place). Take into account I've just lost ~3 days of working income (assuming it's around a weekend), and multiply by however many such interviews I take, plus any additional expenses incurred along the way, and it's a lot more than just $140.

Plus it would be hard to hold a job if I had to take a few weeks off here and there to go traveling around the US just for an interview. Fortunately, most of these places do have centers in Chicago.

Add in having to have key money and finding my own apartment when I get to Japan, and there's a lot more money, plus an $1100 plane ticket. Adds up quickly, no? But if I can cut a little out here and there, it ends up being significantly cheaper for me.

And where is all this in the FAQs? I see a bunch of stuff like, "what's the deal with insurance," "what should I bring with me," "when's the best time to apply," and "what's the housing like there", but I couldn't find specific answers to whether or not the various job listings were going to be mostly for already-in-Japan teachers (which it appears that they are), what the odds were they'd give visa/set-up assistance, and how much actual choice is given for location (vague answers at best).

Sure, I could spend a few hours looking through a dozen or so sites, but I figured someone could save me a decent amount of time and tell me if they knew. If not, then I'd just go and do it myself. I had heard speak of only a few key companies that hire from abroad (I think I saw Glenski say it on another thread, and I'm glad he explicitly stated which here), but no names.

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

Thanks, Glenski. I'm aware that airfare is not a regular aspect of Japanese hiring, but key money/set-up assistance is. I understand the viewpoint of the Japanese companies. Believe it or not, I have been reading the forums.

I also understand what the general working life is like at the major eikaiwas (there were threads on the "typical day in xxxx" right?). I think you misunderstood my pre-previous post as asking for more questions, when it was just a defense of why I thought the details were more than "minuscule". I understand that there are things expected of me by the companies and a commitment, but how cheap pre-employment commitments are is still important to me.

If I was just looking for tons of money to sit on my ass all day I wouldn't have already dropped $2300 on training. I get the feeling it will be somewhat wasted on eikaiwa work, but I see this as a stepping stone to a better job maybe 6 months in, when I have the ability to properly search in-country for a decent location and school and not have to worry about a visa and plane ticket.

I'm not sure where the idea came from that I just wanted a paid vacation. Is it because I said I'm more relaxed in the class room and not high energy? Color me confused... I may not be a workaholic, but I don't expect to be paid for nothing either.

G Cthulhu · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject:

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

DNK wrote:

MrCAPiTUL · Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 232 Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Okay. . .
I REALLY dont mean to sound like a *beep* in this thread, BUT. . . . .
are you SURE you are even NEAR ready to go to Japan??????

Look, you are looking to spend a chunk of your life as a minority in a foreign country that is perpendicular to what you are used to. Yet, you don't even have an idea of the places? Riddle me this - would you move to someplace in the states without knowing where you were moving to?? Granted, without visiting first nobody TRULY knows what to expect in their new environment - BUT, they have a general idea of what it will be like. You don't know country, from city, to suburban. Before you move any further, my advice is to learn more about the place first to figure out what places may be suitable based on your criteria. No cities - find a place that has locations in the burbs or the country. The ones that offer recruitment from the states - do they even HAVE locations in the country or burbs? Most places will have a general list of locations that they have. Again I stress - find out what places are/are not suitable to your liking. If you don't know what the place is like - copy the name of it, and paste it into the empty box on this page: http://www.google.com You will then be able to get a feel if the place is at least country or urban.

Again, I don't want to be a *beep*, but I'm just giving you my honest opinion. Slow down a bit and learn about the country.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Ok, I've got lunch break to spare. Here's some real down and dirty research for you.

How many places advertise for jobs and need applicants in Japan vs. those that don't need applicants in Japan?

Go to gaijinpot.com. Look at the most recent 100 listings for English teachers. (skip the French ones, and the help at Nellie's publisher)

40 companies offered 64 jobs and said you had to be in Japan.
23 companies offered 35 jobs and said you didn't.

So, 40/63 = 63% require you to be in Japan, not 100%

Some of those companies advertised in both categories above, so it depended on various circumstances why. I'm not saying these are all marvelous job opportunities, either. Some are recognized scabby outfits.

Total time needed = 10 minutes

I don't know if these are FT or PT jobs, but that would be the next step if I were job hunting, given the way GP lists its openings.

Want the same research on ohayosensei ads? Wait until I get the most recent issue, or do the legwork yourself. Gaijinpot at least makes it easy with a red asterisk denoting places that require you to be in Japan. (Hint: this makes it easy for the job hunter to SKIP THEM in his pursuit!)

Go to ELTNews.com and read their 10 posts. NONE of them say anything about whether you need to be here or not. So? If they don't interest you, don't contact them. Some talk about visa sponsorship, some ask that you have one already. You do the math.

Go to the Kansai Time Out classifieds. First page only.
16 full-time jobs offered
1 specifically said applicants must be in Japan
The other 15 didn't say anything (although some were requesting an urgent start time).

OhayoSensei, most current listing.
FT jobs only give the following breakdown:
23 positions REQUIRE you to be here.
2 positions PREFER you live here.
10 positions DON'T require you to be here.
17 positions don't say.
so....................................
23/52 = 44% require you to be here, but 19% specifically DON'T.

So, it seems that not 100% of places openly demand that applicants have to live in Japan.

Gee, my lunch break isn't even half over...
Can't do this with Word or Excel? I didn't in the last 30 minutes, but if I were you, I'd keep my records that way instead of on scrap paper like I just did.

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

Thank you very much. Glenski, that was more than I wanted, so thanks especially.

I didn't want to come off as if I wanted everyone to do my work for me, I just wanted to know if anyone already knew these answers. Anyway, I'm new to job hunting (I usually just walk down the street and apply anywhere I want work, which does work around here quite well); so I'm not sure what I'm doing yet. Having to do this from abroad, and no less at the same time I'm looking for work here, has me a little confused.

And thanks, MrCAPiTUL, I do think I need to slow down a bit. I'm just under a lot of pressure to get some work right now, which makes me rush a bit. I have this problem regularly. A lot of my problem is knowing what anyplace in Japan would be like having never seen the country (save through movies, which is usually Tokyo, Hiroshima, or very old). Fortunately we have a rather large Japanese contingent of exchange students here; so it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a good idea soon (and some language ability/practice/money...?).