Job Discussion Forums

dove · Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 271 Location: USA/Japan

I wonder if Gypsy Rose has met anyone other than English teachers and Japanese people here in Japan? Does she have any idea the kind of discrimination people of, say, Brazilian ancestry can face in this country? My partner is Brazilian-Japanese, as are many of my friends. The racism I have encountered (police checks, espsecially) is NOTHING compared to what they have dealt with. I am happy that you have such a rosy picture of Japan, but I also wish you had a complete picture....not so that you lose your love of Japan, just so that you know.

Chris21 · Joined: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 366 Location: Japan

It is definitely a different experience for white vs. non-white gaijin in Japan, as well as men vs. women.

Gypsy Rose Kim · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 151

Thanks, Glenski. I understand where you're coming from. I thought you were giving me the Intro to Japan 101, "see, there's this thing called tatemae..." My bad.

The only thing I wish people would stop saying is that I'm naive or don't know any better.

"She must have spent all her time being taken out to dinner by sweet, rich obachans and ojisans." "I guess you only knew Japanese people and white people, so you don't know how bad the others have it."

I could easily type up a hundred examples of messed up stuff that's happened in other countries. I didn't want to stoop to this level, but off the top of my head, try: Eastern Europeans in Western Europe, immigrant detention centers in Australia, indigenous people in dozens of countries, blacks and Arabs being targeted by US police officers, Pakistanis and those who look like Pakistanis in the UK...ad nauseum.

Please. You're all entitled to your own opinions. But stop insisting that my warm feelings toward Japan are based on not knowing as much as you all do. I can assure you, I'm well over the honeymoon stage and my opinions are based on much consideration.

Maybe I'm being too sensitive. If so, I'm sorry.

SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

GRK this is not directed at you. Just some general information.

We seldom get to see or understand the "Real Japanese"
How many have seen two or more Japanese people disagreeing or having a fight on ther job? rare but ...
How many have heard the gossipping that goes on in the office? rare for some of us, unless you get a chance to work in an office. You won't see these things happening in an eikaiwa.

The more experiences you have in Japan the more you get to see the "Real Japanese Person"
and that is under a good few layers of thickness. After you get through that you will see the real person.
Or if you are fortunate enough to have real sincere friends who can tell you about the "Real Japanese Person" then you will know.

The interesting thing is that Japanese people will readily Admit that everybody else is doing tatemae and "Goma Suri" on a daily basis.
They all know that the other person is doing it. It is a daily occurrance.
Alot of the time we as foreigners don't even know and haven't a clue what's going on. And also if we don't understannd what they are saying and the special expressions that they use we wouldn't know how much tatemae is going down and we might just assume everything is happy go lucky.

Moreover I believe that foreigners who have varied experiences in Japan for example working in different locations and for different kinds of companies (probably Glenski among others) would have a better or faster opportunity to get to understand Japanese people and the culture from the angle of interacting with different people in different situations on different levels at different locations.

I am fortunate to have moved around a little in japan and have done a few different kinds of jobs and have worked with different age groups and have gotten to see a few of the subcultures in Japan. But there is ALOT more I have not experienced yet.
I am surprised that after a number of years in Japan that I sttill find out things on a weekly basis that I had no clue about "The Real Japanse Person" and the culture.
Quite interesting. I am finally getting the opportunity to peel back some of those thick layers and getting a peek.

dove · Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 271 Location: USA/Japan

Gypsy Rose--I think we are just commenting on some of what you wrote on the first page of this thread. You mentioned that Tokyo gives us the opportunity to do whatever we want (I'm paraphrasing). Have you ever tried to rent an apartment and then been refused because the owner is afraid that foreign cooking will smell up the building? I don't know, I respect your opinion (maybe I even envy your optimism and enthusiasm for Japan), but I just worry that when foreigners overlook things like racism, it might give some Japanese citizens the justification to perpetuate their actions....and I am not saying YOU overlook racism. It's just that you probably have not encountered it here. So maybe you are the lucky one. [/quote]

Gypsy Rose Kim · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 151

Of course. I understand. Just as I'm sure you understand these things exist in our own countries, so therefore they aren't really a reason to write off Japan. I really don't think the problem is worse in Japan. I really, really don't. Maybe it's because I know how bad it is in other places, instead of not knowing how bad it is in Japan?

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

SeasonedVet · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Japan

In response to the OP.
Why are people still coming?
There are still alot of pull factors.
although salaries are down, that doesn't affect people who are coming so much because they haven't been here to experience higer salaries.
The pull factors are but not limited to

and the list can go on.

gaijin4life · Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:52 am Post subject:

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

gajin4life,
Would you not quote such long and complexly buried passages, please? It's unnecessary.

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

Another popular reason to come to Japan is because you have no career path or the one you are on isn't going very well.

If I had a yen for everyone I met who said they were a writer, film director, poet, actor, designer, musician etc, who was taking some time out from their glorious career to expand their mind, well, I'd have a few hundred yen.

That's the reason I came! A crumby job in TV production that was going nowhere....SLOW.

I've posted this before and I'm sure I'll post it again but just for the newbies:

Precise · Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 140

womblingfree · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826

voodoochild · Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 80

I have to disagree with almost everything you say Gypsy Rose King..... you must be leading a very sheltered life in Japan, or maybe you just dont think about or reflect on things that go on in Japan

Gypsy Rose Kim · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 151

Well, voodoo, I don't mean to be rude, but since you put it that way...

Perhaps you are the one who ought to reflect. Are you so wound up in your life in Japan that you've forgotten what it's like in other places? Is this the first time you've been a minority? (I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but it's a strong possibility given your indignation.)