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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Isn't a lot of a degree just visits to the library (albeit a reasonably well-stocked, "free" one), though? |
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zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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You're all wrong.
A degree is most certainly NOT visits to the library. It most certainly IS visits to the Student Union bar for a round of �1 pints and 50p house doubles. |
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dialogger
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 419
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
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In my experience teaching is a performance skill. You can master the content in the first week of semester 1.
It is keeping the quality consistently high class in class out from 8am starts through to the 6pm starts that matters.
All hiring situations have become increasingly credentialist over the last couple of decades. It is one way of whittling down the shortlist. |
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Jetgirly
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| dialogger wrote: |
| In my experience teaching is a performance skill. You can master the content in the first week of semester 1. |
I've got a document that's one hundred and forty pages long telling me what I have to do in my ESL classroom. For example, under the heading "Students will use spoken and written English to gather, interpret and communicate information", I'm instructed that my students will "preview and review to get main ideas and supporting details from simple texts, in areas of special interest or knowledge; e.g., newspaper stories, magazine articles, fiction" while "using grammatical concepts; e.g., nouns: count, uncount, singular, plural, proper; relative pronouns (that, which, who); determiners (a, an, the); verb tenses: simple present, simple past, present perfect, past perfect; coordinating conjunctions; time clauses introduced by subordinating conjunctions (when, before, often); relative clauses introduced by subordinating conjunctions (that, which, who)." I can't master that content in a week, and I challenge you to.
There is no textbook chosen by the Ministry (of Education) that incorporates all the learning outcomes my students have to meet. There is no official resource list either. This is probably because ESL students in the public school system are grouped by age, not by ability level. Sure, I have to keep the students entertained. But I also have to know the learning outcomes inside and out, and I have to make sure that at the end of the five-month semester ALL of my students have met them. If my students haven't, they can't go on to do regular English classes (with the Canadian students), and they can't graduate from high school. I agree 100% that school should be fun, but I think that as educators we have to put the majority of the emphasis on what we're going to teach, how we're going to teach it, and how we're going to be sure that learning has occured. Then we can look at how we're going to make it fun. I don't ever want it to be about whether or not my performance in the classroom was entertaining; I want it to be about whether or not my students' performance on the ESL exam allowed them to progress into non-ESL English classes. |
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dialogger
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 419
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:57 am Post subject: |
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I don't equate performance with entertainment.
It is having the self belief/energy/work ethic/whatever to present the same lesson material over and over in an interesting and easily assimilated way. |
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ShapeSphere
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a degree and while we could argue until the cows get bird flu, it's simply better to acknowledge that having a degree is a lot better than not having one.
Most employers want you to have a BA/MA/etc., and its their opinions that matter. The corporate drone that picks up your resume/CV will only have a quick look over your carefully typed selection of half-truths, and has to make a quick decision, so they can return to playing solitaire or reading emails on their post-it decorated computer. NO degree? NO chance.
Now I am in a country (Japan) that gives me a chance to make more and save more, and therefore I will do a BA. Only to ensure my CV stands more of a chance and so I can make more money in the long run.
Frankly, I learnt more from life, travel, listening, books, and educating myself. I have met young graduates with the cranial capacity of a cress sandwich, but would definitely concede that graduates in their late thirties with a degree and a grounding in life are bright and have worked hard to attain a formal education. |
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cangringo
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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The point that some of us are trying to make is that you are not automatically a better person for having attained a degree. Of course my standards for good people have more to do with what kind of person you are and how you live your life. A high and mighty attitude does not make you a better person, it makes you a worse one. There is a great line from the movie Happyness but I can't remember the exact wording. It has to do with not letting anyone not respect you. Everyone deserves respect until they prove themselves unworthy of it.
I like your posts movinaround, they are very well thought out and I think fair to both sides.
What's funny is how many people with degrees are flipping burgers for a living...that's not to say the degree is worthless but obviously the person needed something more than a degree. I don't have a degree but I know many people with them and to be honest I could have gone farther in the job I was in in Canada than they could (that had to do with being in the right place at the right time), however I chose a different way of life. I could have slaved away at my job and been unhappy or I could get my TEFL cert and explore the world. Obviously I chose the latter.
Having a degree doesn't guarantee you a better job or more money but I agree it does help. 
Does anyone have a spare one ...??  |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| ShapeSphere wrote: |
| Frankly, I learnt more from life, travel, listening, books, and educating myself. I have met young graduates with the cranial capacity of a cress sandwich, but would definitely concede that graduates in their late thirties with a degree and a grounding in life are bright and have worked hard to attain a formal education. |
I'd agree with that. Given the choice of a young person with a degree verses a young person with some life experience, I'd go with the experience. However, by the late thirties most people have some sort of life experience and so, as a general rule, the degree holder is probably the better choice. |
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TravellingAround
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| cangringo wrote: |
| The point that some of us are trying to make is that you are not automatically a better person for having attained a degree. |
You are quite right that it does not automatically make anybody superior to anyone else.
However...anybody who doubts the power of a degree must be viewed with caution. The simple fact is that anybody who seriously wants to take up teaching as a career will get a degree. Whether they respect it or not. |
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FuzzX
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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anyone who seriously wants to take up teaching as a career will get a degree
nope not gonna do it, don�t care, don�t need it, will never need it.. I guess its not a career if you own a school though. |
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The_Hanged_Man
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Hmm...would any of you out there care to hire a lawyer, doctor, or accountant who just learned by self study? I wouldn't. Would you be more comfortable with a doctor who graduated from Harvard or from the Tijuana School of Medicine and Typewriter Maintenance?
Like it or not degrees do make a difference. I know if I was shopping for a language teacher I would want the best person possible in the price range I was looking for, and I think I would prefer someone who had an academic background in languages.
That said, unrelated degrees wouldn't impress me at all if I was looking for a teacher. For example, I would wonder why someone with a background in Physics is hawking language lessons when they could be making a lot more doing something related to their degree. |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Hanged_Man wrote: |
| I would wonder why someone with a background in Physics is hawking language lessons when they could be making a lot more doing something related to their degree. |
Because sometimes after working at a degree's related field for a dozen or so years, it's time to move on and do something completely different.
Been there, done that.... |
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The_Hanged_Man
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Because sometimes after working at a degree's related field for a dozen or so years, it's time to move on and do something completely different. |
I completely understand that. I have the habit of switching jobs every couple of years myself, and I am not making the most of my degrees I could in a financial sense.
All I'm saying is that if I had to choose between two people I only knew on a superficial level as a language teacher, I would lean towards the one who had the stronger background in languages/education. From personal experience I know there are some people who started ESL work mainly because they couldn't manage or develop a decent career in their home countries. *shrug* Someone with a related degree or at least a certificate would seem like a safer bet to me. |
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cangringo
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Ok...I think I've proven my point here...
besides which I have now found out how to get playoff hockey here in Mexico...my team and all so honestly I dont' care about this stuff until after... |
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DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| zorro (3) wrote: |
You're all wrong.
A degree is most certainly NOT visits to the library. It most certainly IS visits to the Student Union bar for a round of �1 pints and 50p house doubles. |
Probably the truest post I've seen in a while. Anywhere. Well, in Britain at least. In the States it would be $2 and $1, respectively.
I'd say someone that taught themselves probably actually cares about the knowledge they've gained and probably will remember more than the 10% they would otherwise have crammed in the night before the test that magically managed to remain with them after a year or two of heavy drinking.
But miracles do happen
At the same time, it doesn't mean they can work under pressure or have learned other skills that college teaches one, or would necessarily be a good addition to a business. |
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