Job Discussion Forums

[Vertumnus]

Some of the users here are very good at figuring out quickly which schools are sweatshops for teachers. The rest of us need help figuring it out. If you have any suggestions on how to spot a bad employer, please share it here.

To get things rolling, take it as a clue...
1) If the person who's supposed to hire you keeps on dodging your calls.

2) If the HR person keeps on pushing back the dates when they'll advise you if you've been accepted.

3) When you ask teachers how they feel about working there and they don't seem to want to directly answer you, or they answer with a fake smile and glazed eyes.

4) If everyone looks tired whenever you see them.

5) If what you've been promised is not what the contract says. Don't accept a handshake and a smile as confirmation of the promise - it isn't worth a pile of roach poop. (I had to edit the full name of "roach" to exclude the naughty part.)

6) If the contract is not bi-lingual, or English only, and there is no official stamp (materai) for you to sign across. The Indonesian Dept. of Labour generally can't/won't help if you have an English only contract without a stamp. But that won't stop them from extorting your school!

7) If the contract is for more than one year. These are generally not permissible in Indonesia.

If there is a non-compete clause that restricts you from working at a competing school AFTER you leave them.

9) If there are penalty clauses (such as for leaving before the end of the contract) in the contract where the formula for determining the penalty is not explicitly stated, or the clauses are vague enough that you are confused.

10) If they expect you to work Saturdays and Sundays at their discretion.

11) If there is no statement about overtime that is acceptable to you.

12) If they don't offer you housing (especially at national plus and international schools), insurance, transportation and other common benefits.

13) If the bonus is a performance bonus, or if it doesn't clearly state WHEN you will receive it.

14) If the school offers you a one-way or round-trip ticket home, make sure the contract says THEY will pay for it up front, instead of making you buy it and they pay you back (this is a common trick since many teachers don't have enough saved up to buy it themselves).

15) Ask on Dave's ESL Cafe or another website - but do it well in advance because it may take a while for people to answer you.

[drgonzo]

All good points, but I would change #12 to be a housing allowance and not just housing. With housing they can choose what they give you, with an allowance you make the decision where you live.

[gugelhupf]

If you send your CV by email and get a contract to sign by return - just a little too desparate for staff! And yes, this has happened.

If you get a questionaire prying into your private religious beliefs.

[papillon]

If the DOS says you look kinky in a school tie at your interview.

(DOS at EF Pondok Indah - shame on you)

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[guruengerish]

Come on! be fair!!

No teacher can afford an international ticket home on local salaries.

Normally, a return ticket is needed on arrival, and the school reimburses you your fare TO Indonesia after you been with them for 3 months, and then reimburses you the fare home at the end of your first contract.

I know one teacher who paid for her ticket by credit card, and then had to pay the interest for the next 12 months, as the school would not pay half even after six months. A certain degree of errr industrial leverage was needed to have all our tickets paid for as promised.

Once you're working in Indonesia, and you're planning on returning there after a break, you can buy a return ticket from Jakarta, and it's much cheaper than buying it in Australia. Don't know about other countries. You would need to have your original ticket extended if possible, and use that for your final trip home..

[Vertumnus]

[Chester]

TP.
re, cant afford air ticket.
gee man, if you or i were offered a job in another country, it is expected that compensation is due.

granted, esl teaching is not in the same category as EXPAT living and working overseas.
if you had a real job and had an offer to leave home and live and work in Indonesia, you would expect / demand suitable renumeration.. including free air tickets.

if all ESL people had the funds to fly globally at their will, they would also have the capacity to not accept low paying jobs in ESL at all.

no disrespect to the esl profession - its a tough life. and airfares are a significant part of the income.

also TP you have a high horse attitude about how much you earn equals how good you are at teaching.

I dont get it at all.

I cant say if i was good or bad at ESL, but I always did my best. Didint make much money.
couldnt often afford air tickets either.

Does that mean i suck at ESL?
and you dont?

I know lots of genuine people who are sincere and good teachers and dont have the money to stack up frequent flyer points.

[alicantik]

16. You find yourself working on a tourist or social visa.

[beefer]

if you want to avoid working at a bad school just use your head and a little common sense.
find out as much as you can about the place before you commit to anything. if you've asked all the questions, read the whole contract and are satisfied with it, then go with it as long as it satisfies you before you sign anything.....BUT...

1) please don't sign a contract for 6-7 juta and then turn around to this forum ( or others) and complain that you are only making 6-7 juta. its not anybodys fault but your own that this amount no longer satisfies you.
2) don't agree to move into a house that you've never seen and is inhabited with people you have never been in contact with and then turn to a forum like this and then complain that you never imagined it could be so bad. contact the school and those that work there( as well as your possible future roomies) to see what it really is like.
3) if you don't want to work saturdays....don't sign a contract that says you will/ may have to work saturdays. if your current contract says nothing about saturday classes being possible then you have nothing to worry about....or so it seems.
4) .....alright, i don't have a #4, but my point is that 99% of the people that claim they work(or have worked) in a bad school have themselves to blame for it. i've worked for a few different places here and have never encountered anything that i would deem as being truely negative and i credit this fully to the fact that i have put forth the tiny bit of extra research into contracts before i signed them.
5) ....although i didn't have a #4, i do have a #5....try to get the info you need first hand rather than 3rd party stuff you may encounter. forums like this can be helpful but can also be misleading. just because someone else didn't like a certain place doesn't mean you won't...do your own research into the school and all that comes with it, don't rely on another persons experiences as your sole determiner.

.....now, if you don't mind, i'm going to step off this very high soap box and wander over to the cafeteria for a warm glass of some very watered-down milo.

[El Llama]

Yes, beefer, I agree. But I gather that this thread is aimed at people who are still in their home country. Bule basi have learned these things the hard way. Do we really want to inflict that on an innocent who doesn't know the score?

I guess it shows how "in the know" we are, but I don't mind others learning from my mistakes when they have no other frame of reference.

Life's too short, no?

[beefer]

[El Llama]

Oops, I thought you were slagging off people who were looking for advice. On re-reading your post, I got that wrong. Apologies.

[beefer]

no worries llama. i certainly wouldn't slag anyone for coming here to find advice...in particular the new teachers....all i'm saying is that they ( all of us, actually) should do their/our homework first.
on the other hand, i am totally amused by those teachers who come here, work their year at ef, etc. ,complain the whole time and then jump at the first job they are offered(either before or after their contract ends) that pays them more- not looking at anything else but the salary, only to realize that they were probably ( in some instances anyway) better off staying where they were or atleast being a little more patient in their job search.

we all know that teaching in this country is not difficult-- and there are lots of good teaching jobs in this country...as it is, the good jobs don't usually go to the "good" teachers and instead go to the better job searchers...and ofcourse being in the right place at the right time
in other words, if you are willing to put in the extra time and effort into finding the "good" job openings, then as long as you are not an idiot you will stand a very good chance of being rewarded with getting the position.

....leaving soapbox.....now

[TEAM_PAPUA]

The bars are always full of ESL teachers, yet they never have money for tickets.