Job Discussion Forums

[alisa_only]

I know the title would seem all-too-familiar for some, however I have looked through previous posts for the last few weeks and still need more specific advices on starting out:

I am 27 years old female born in Taiwan.
I have been living in NZ and Australia for the past 14 years.
I hold AU/NZ/TW passports.
I have a Bachelor and a Master in Commerce.
I worked as a Credit Analyst in major commercial banks in Australia for 5 years.

I am now seeking work in countries where I cannot speak the local language and intend work and travel until I reach 30.

So far, working as English teacher seems the most likely option.

I am fully bilingual in Mandarin and English and I would love to be able to teach Mandarin too.

My English accent is a mix of Aussie/Kiwi accent (and yes, I get teased about this a lot ), and people said they generally cannot detect any Asian accent in my English.

I have previous tutoring experience (flute) to various ages (10-45 years old) including secondary school, with limited experience in teaching English to ESL students

I am aware my grammar in writing is not perfect but my conversational skill is very strong. My weakness is that I lack awareness of grammatical errors and rely mostly on my intuition. I am now working on this, starting from present simple tense etc.

My major concern is really my Asian-looking feature and the technically non-native status.

I know non-native Asian-looking female still have a chance of finding a job teaching English, but I am not certain the best approach to would be for me to seek such positions.

I want to teach in Korea as my first choice, but I am also interested in Japan and Europe.

So given my situation, I need advice on what should be my first steps towards securing a teaching position, hopefully in Korea:

1) Should I do TESOL/TEFL? We all know these costs a small fortune and may or may not be applicable to perspective employers. For the moment I am not planning to teach for more than 3-4 years.

2) Should I start out in Japan (or even Taiwan) to build up my English teaching experience? Would that make a significant difference to potential employers in Korea and elsewhere?

I mentioned Japan because it seems the big conversational schools are not too fussed about the non-native issue, is it true given my situation?

3) Would a Certificate in Language teaching be of any use from NZ Polytechnic? Would this be considered acceptable "qualification"?

4) This may be outside the scope of the forum, but would I need a TESOL equivalent qualification to teach Mandarin (well, I am native in that!)? For example Nova also has conversational Mandarin classes. Would the ability to be able to teach both an advantage for me when applying for a position?

5) Is it realistic at all for me to teach English in Eastern Europe? Would they prefer German/French English teachers over Asian? How about teaching Mandarin in rest of Europe?

6) Or, should I just apply for Nova or a working holiday visa to Korea and just dive in?

I know this is a long post and I thank you for your patience for reading this far! I have put a lot of thoughts into this and any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

[spiral78]

I can't speak to all of your questions, but I can make a small start.

You would certainly benefit from a TESL/TEFL certification. In addition to exposing you to current approaches to teaching language (a very different kettle of fish from flute! and other skills) a good course would also help you with the grammatical awareness you mention.

Further, while there are people teaching without any qualifications, a reputable certification IS held by most newbie applicants in most situations, so if you want to be competitive, you do need one.

The fact that you are technically a non-native speaker would likely make it even more important to become as qualified as possible, to make sure your CV looks as strong as possible.

As for Europe, you would need to look into student visas. Non-EU ciitzens are not legally eligible for work in most of the 'older' EU member states, though you can legally work in most of the 'new' EU states like Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Rep.

I don't know of many German/French English teachers (a few) in Central Europe. There are lots and lots of North Americans, Brits, and Aussies, though! The majority of private language school staff are native speakers.

There may be some level of prejudice for Anglo-looking native speakers, but it's pretty low, in my personal experience. There is plenty of work to be had, and you should be eligible. Remember that wages in these countries are essentially subsistence level - you can make enough to live all right, go out, and travel locally, but not to save or pay back debt at home.

But - watch out! European language learners tend to have a relatively strong knowledge of English grammar, and they often want clear explanations of how parts of the language function. You'd definitely need to bone up on grammar to be successful - however, I have to point out that this is equally true of most native speakers who also go mostly on instinct!

[Glenski]

If you intend to work in EFL and travel for the next 3 years, you may not benefit from a TEFL certificate. However, I can detect quite a few grammatical errors in your writing, which otherwise was very clear and seemed to be written carefully, so perhaps a TEFL certificate that helped to review grammar might be helpful after all. Here in Japan, students of all ages enjoy a native English speaker, and that is usually interpreted as meaning someone born and raised in such a country. On that basis, and if you speak like you write, you might have a few problems with some employers.

Moreover, getting a visa would require being taught all of your classes for 12-13 years. Maybe your Aussie and NZ passports would deflect immigration's view of that, but I don't know.

Having an Asian face can be a minor problem. Over here, people with Asian faces are sometimes treated as if no fluent English is possible to come out of their mouths, so it is up to you to prove otherwise, and that leads us back to the errors above. Sorry to harp on that point.

If you want to teach languages other than English, look into NOVA or Berlitz. Perhaps you could manage to get a job teaching either or both languages.

[Henry_Cowell]

[Glenski]

Hanging my head in shame. Guilty as charged above, but at least it is only occasional.

(Making a note to think harder and to recheck what I write before hitting SEND...)

[Atassi]

[coffeedrinker]

I've worked in three countries in Eastern Europe and in my experience it wasn't the case that the majority of teachers in private language schools were native speakers - it may very by country, and I'm not sure how your situation fits in. But I don't think it's the case that you'd necessarily be competing primarily with native speakers.

I agree with spiral78 about European learners - though the vast majority of my experience is with European learners, so I don't have much to compare it to - and grammar. Even if it's not the focus of the course, they may well expect you to be able to explain etc., so preparing yourself in this area would probably help.

My impression from hearing others is that a tefl certificate might be more important if you go to Europe. I certainly think it's valuable wherever you are, but first of all, many employers just require it (in Europe), and second, I feel mine helped me in a practical way when I was expected to teach advanced classes in my first job with students who had been studying grammar for a long time. You still need to learn on your feet and prepare for lessons, but I did a CELTA and I think it gave me a good foundation for managing this stuff.

Especially if a person is going to a high wage country like Korea or Japan, I don't think I agree that a tefl certificate costs a small fortune - in my experiences it's a good investment as training for a year or two or three of work. It might be ironic, that where wages are relatively/comparatively/whatever lower - in Europe - it's more often a formal requirement. But even if you disagree on this level, I still think the other posters make a good point that a tefl certificate will make you more competitive.

[alisa_only]

Thanks everyone for your input.

[alisa_only]

Thanks Coffeedrinker for your insight into teaching in Eastern Europe!

When I made the point about TEFL courses cost a small fortune etc., I really was referring to my situation that if the potential employers cannot see past my skin colour and my birth country, then the return on investment of a TESOL/TEFL course would be significantly lower for me than a native English speaker (and that is the banker in me talking).

I was hoping (and since have gained) some advise as to whether a TEFL course would still be worthwhile for me, given the above scenario.

I did not mean to imply the aim was to avoid the expense, but rather, trying to find out factors that I have not previously considered and enter them in to my "return on investment equation".

You post have certainly given me a few more factors to consider.

So for that I thank you again for your post!

[Atassi]

[schwa]

Look into Korean public schools -- generally reliable employers, they dont discriminate regarding ethnicity, & they're on a hiring binge.

TESOL cert is not required but would kick you up a pay-bracket which would quickly cover the cost, not to mention lend you confidence in the classroom. Note: the course needs to be 100+ hours.

Previous suggestion is good: check out Dave's Korea forum.

[Glenski]

Alisa, let me clarify my earlier remark:

[alisa_only]

Thanks everyone for providing such valuable information and constructive comments!

Now that I know what to expect I feel more comfortable and confident about my situation.

I will focus on job markets in Korea and Japan to start with and will look into the respective forums for further questions.

Thanks for all your help!