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Do you really care about your students...?
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denise



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auckies--

Not all of us get bored/annoyed by longer posts. Some of those posts are quite informative.

I appreciate that you have your own style--keeping it light-hearted--but you should appreciate that other people have their own styles too. Plus, some of us are in academically-oriented schools (NOT "conversation schools") where keeping things light and fun really isn't an option.

d
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auckies, your post was too long by half. Are you for real?
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:35 am    Post subject: Care about it, you bet your arse! Reply with quote

I care deeply about my student's performance both in my own classes and their other subject classes. I work at a combined jr/sr high school in Tokyo, and along with 3 other foreign teachers, I'm responsible for English literature, English conversation and essay writing classes. One of my biggest worries is whether I overload my kids with homework. Like a lot of Japanese schools, the kids have to manage 10 different subjects all year long, and conv or English writing only gets 10 % of their energy. The international teachers are always negotiating homework loads for the students.

I get such a thrill out of seeing the kids succeed both in the assignments I give them and in their other subjects. I know lots of the kids by name here (I see about 250 students every week), and I've only been working here since September.

You have to love teaching, and you have to like kids to get on in this business. Auckies sounds like a miserable person, and exhibits troll like behaviour. This is all rather sad.

But it warms my heart to see other people tell about how they love their jobs, generally. There are hard days, of course, but it's better than bad in the end.

Sorry to Jim Dunlop, who has found himself in the eikaiwa business. For some people, it works out really well. I know some NoGeoShame teachers who appreciate the business acumen of the company directors and genuinely like the human interaction on the job, and see the educational aspect as just that, an aspect of the job. Others don't fare so well, largely because they come from an educational background and are more suited to academic teaching situations. I know I couldn't hack working at eikaiwa here in Jland. I would get bored pretty fast, not because the people are boring (eikaiwa is a regular human impact laboratory), but because the job isn't challenging enough for me. I'm swamped at the high school and frequently have to come up with well-researched lessons on challenging topics. I need the stimulation.

And I'd prefer longer, more in depth posts from people who have something to say rather than read drive-by complaints...
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Wolf



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 1245
Location: Middle Earth

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I read on the internet, most jobs in Korean hogwans are teaching children. In Japan, many jobs are teaching adults, university students, or high school students.

It takes an effort for most people to learn another language. Encouraging students to make this effort is not the sign of a bad teacher.
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Care about it, you bet your arse! Reply with quote

TokyoLiz wrote:
I would get bored pretty fast... because the job [at an eikaiwa] isn't challenging enough for me.

With all due respect, this came across pretty patronizing. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you meant to say, "Eikaiwas would kill my interest because I wouldn't have the freedom to experiment that I have where I am now." Sure enough, at McEikaiwa and most mom and pop establishments, there is little freedom.

I also know that you added "for me" so take what I'm about to say with acknowledgement of that.

In many ways, the eikaiwa field is more challenging than Jr. High / High School because there is so little support out there for the eikaiwa situation and so little of great quality has been done. It is still a field ripe for a ton of decent SLA research, curriculum design and materials innovation and if that wouldn't challenge the average teacher I don't know what would.

Believe me, you simply haven't worked at a decent eikaiwa if what you write is true for you. I have never been so challenged in my life as I was here when I saw what a mess this place was five years ago. It took me that long to sort it out and it was so challenging I got an MA out of it. My teachers would be aghast to hear that someone thinks their job isn't challenging. Come and work for us and I'll make sure you have a challenge Wink
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Smooth Operator



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one. You did classroom-based research for an MA using the eikaiwa as your 'field'? Are you still working at the eikaiwa after finishing the MA?
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeedy. The dissertation was on teacher training so that's where I've been focussed in the last year since I finished it. What is "challenging" me though is a lack of colleagues who I can parley with on aspects of teaching. All the other teachers here either have minimal or no TEFL qualifcations/experience. Kind of lonely actually....
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Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shmooj,
Maybe you can offer auckies a job in Japan next year? Sounds like a hard worker and caring.
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J-Pop



Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 215
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:21 am    Post subject: an idea Reply with quote

Gordon wrote:
Shmooj,
Maybe you can offer auckies a job in Japan next year? Sounds like a hard worker and caring.

Laughing Laughing
I'm so glad I held my tongue--thanks Gordon. Your words are notably kinder (& definitely more lighthearted) than what I had in mind.

I was tempted to use TokyoLiz's musings, as a springboard for expressing something . . . uh, slightly different, than what you wrote,
Quote:
Auckies sounds like a miserable person, and exhibits troll like behaviour. This is all rather sad.

And,
Quote:
. . . I'd prefer longer, more in depth posts from people who have something to say rather than read drive-by complaints...

But, I didn't do that. . . . sometimes, my self-discipline is truly surprising! Cool

I like your post much better than what I was thinking. Very Happy
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Brooks



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my girlfriend is at an eikaiwa in Osaka and finds it challenging. She has to teach a variety of classes, including the TOEFL, TOEIC, Eiken, etc. For some classes she has to plan a lot.

Sure there are some teachers who never plan and just "teach" at English schools. Or they just talk in class. But some really do put some thought into their lessons.

Maybe my problem is that I care and have expectations. I have been disillusioned about some things. This week has been tiring but I have been trying.
I have talked to a few homeroom teachers about some of their students.
It works better if they tell the students than if I do because my Japanese is limited.

On another note,
I am getting sick of being around teachers that just do a half-ass job. About people who just teach English because they don`t know what else to do with their lives. About people who care more about money.
About teachers who don`t bother to learn Japanese or don`t make accomodations to cultural differences.
I used to work with a couple teachers that were serious and it used to be good to go out with them and talk about teaching and good ideas in the classroom. But for the last year I haven`t been around teachers like that .

So I find it harder to motivate myself.

This year I had to write an article for my school`s journal. I thought a while about what to write. Finally I decided to write about problems that I see at my high school and some possible solutions.
I wrote of many different things, including:

1. Discipline problems
2. returnees
3. multilevel classes
4. large classes (30-40 students)
5. The declining abilities of students

One good idea I had was for service learning. I read about a high school in Kyoto that has students volunteer to join Habiait for Hummanity and build houses in the Philippines. That is not practical at all schools, but the idea is good. I wonder how service learning would work in Japan.
In Maryland (in the USA) all students are required to serve as volunteers for programs in order to graduate.

Some things won`t change. Class sizes at my school have increased. Ichinensei homeroom teachers have as many as 43 students.
Over 30 students have been kicked out in the last year in a half because of discipline issues, such as bullying, poor academic performance, etc.
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Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brooks,
Don't get discouraged about co-workers not pulling their weight as you obviously care about your students. You'll get slackers everywhere and you'd be surpirised at who notices who the real workers are.
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon wrote:
Shmooj,
Maybe you can offer auckies a job in Japan next year? Sounds like a hard worker and caring.

Actually, I think he may have worked already here a couple of times in the past as a mutant. Sent him packing both times but what it cost us... Rolling Eyes
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JimDunlop2



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject: Another quick comment.... Reply with quote

Well, the eikawa business is definitely a world of its own... It's kind of twisted if you really think about it. If someone exhibited signs of not caring about his/her students they would never get hired at our company in the first place - they are quite careful about that.

Yet, at the same time (and with the same breath) if you care enough to try and challenge your students, the ones that don't wish to be challenged (and are there for a good time) complain and quite often transfer (or quit). When that happens, the school demands an explanation why people are leaving your class and why there are complaints coming from your camp when everyone else is a happy, happy camper. Smile So with that, you are forced into (an unspoken) mold, using the company's "tried and tested" formulae for success....which only get you one day closer to payday, but your students no closer to speaking better English.

Maybe I'm having a particularly bad day today... But I guess to summarize it all, I would like more than anything to work in a different environment... I know it can be done, as I speak to gaijin on a daily basis who have managed to get great jobs. They are out there, but I think I have to "put in my time in the trenches" as the saying goes, before I can hope to achieve greater things......

P.S. Note to Auckies: Many people have tried to show you a degree of civility and respond very professionally to your tripe and drivel. One of my own shortcomings however, is bluntness, so I won't spare you any by saying that your own attitude stinks, and it's attitudes like yours which make my job more difficult. People tend to see through bull like that... I'm sure if I were your director I would be asking for detailed copies of your lesson plans too... Can you honestly justify your existance at the company you work? Or are you a wasted resource? If you think it's any different elsewhere, I rather doubt it. At our eikawa for instance, every staff is required to keep old lesson plans on file for two years. If for no other reason, but to enlighten teachers that come after you, to let them know what you did, didn't do, and how it worked/didn't work. Please do yourself a favour, (and those of us who actually want to make an effort) and don't come to Japan. You'll only make yourself more miserable. I mean this sincerely: you'll probably be a LOT happier if you go back to where you came from, return to school and study for a career that doesn't involve interacting with people. Bitterness and flippancy like yours usually come from having worked at a job for too long -- heck, you haven't even started in Japan yet! How will your morale be in 6 months? A year? More? (Heaven forbid). Dude: it just ain't worth your blood pressure.
Oh yeah, I forgot... You don't like long stories.... So you probably didn't read quite this far.... Wink Cheers!
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Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,
Quote:
Oh yeah, I forgot... You don't like long stories.... So you probably didn't read quite this far.... Cheers!


Well done Laughing Laughing
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shmooj



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Another quick comment.... Reply with quote

JimDunlop2 wrote:
if you care enough to try and challenge your students, the ones that don't wish to be challenged (and are there for a good time) complain and quite often transfer (or quit). When that happens, the school demands an explanation why people are leaving your class and why there are complaints coming from your camp when everyone else is a happy, happy camper. Smile So with that, you are forced into (an unspoken) mold, using the company's "tried and tested" formulae for success....which only get you one day closer to payday, but your students no closer to speaking better English.

Jim, you hit the nail right on the head here. This is where eikaiwa fails, IMO, to be a valid form of English education in this country. The buck speaks and, at the end of the day, most eikaiwas are run as for profit institutions by business managers, not teachers who have worked their way up there and care enough to challenge students. They promise a royal road to fluency when there is none and their "formulae for success" are actually formulae for business success, not linguistic success.

Maybe you were having a bad day but who can blame you. There are good jobs at eikaiwa out there but you need to find one run by someone who cares about the students in the way we have talked about here. Someone preferably who has become fluent themselves the hard way. Someone who is not in it for the money and who will defer teaching decisions to someone with teaching qualifications. If you find someone like that then don't worry if the contract includes cleaning and giving out flyers. I did and I don't regret it. THey are out there. I would suggest you get to know some through the ETJ group that is run by David Paul. ETJ consists of people involved in eikaiwa teaching who care enough to challenge not only their students but each other to improve the situation for private language schools here.
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