Job Discussion Forums

[Chester]

ESL people who have experience in Indo and are staying there.
What are your future aspirations?
also what have you achieved?
I ask these questions because Those who consider a long term commitment probably would like to know.

Share your knowledge and experience of your success and inspire others.

[-3E-]

I'd like to land a contract where free cigarettes and coffee are included.

[drgonzo]

That's a good question Chester.

Some ESL'ers are older people who have 'served their time' so to speak, and are not considering future prospects as this is their semi-retirement... I met a couple people in ESL who had their full pensions from spending 20 or 30 years in a career... and now they are in Indo to find a 20 year old bride, or to have some fun shagging blok M tarts or whatever willing boys they can find.

Some of the fresh graduates might be spending a year or two teaching... to see if they like it and to get some experience for when they apply for teacher's college back at home. They might be spending their first year or two after graduating 'seeing the world'....

I knew a few guys who did ESL to pay some of the bills while they networked and looked for positions in which they were trained for. Specifically I knew a couple of wanna be journalists who left the JP, tried The Point but never got paid, and teach ESL while looking for the next journalist or editor position...

And then there are the others.... the ones who don't care or worry about future prospects... who tend to live measly pay check to measly pay check. The ones who are going to wake up one day after 10 years of teaching ESL in Indonesia and say damn - what have I done?

They will say to themselves: "I wasted 10 years of my life in a dead end career where the best I could achieve is to be a DOS somewhere. I saved nothing and have not contributed to any federal pension plan - therefore any future plans to retire are a long way off. I rendered my degree and skills useless by not using them - and no one at home cares about me spending 10 years in a developing country babysitting. And the worst part is that I spent 10 years in a country that has no concept of incoming immigration. They give me no rights... I can't vote, I can't own property, and they could boot me out at any time with just the shirt on my back."

To guys in this category, I say good luck to you.

Does anyone here know David Jardine or Mark T. Rex? Both are intelligent guys, but both are also ideal anti-role-models.... what not to do with your life.

3E... you are pretty easy to satisfy... every school I have been in there had free coffee, and cigarettes might as well be free at less than 10000rp for a pack.

[-3E-]

Well it would be more than that... but that's all I could think of at the time...

And the amount I smoke.... more like 50000 a day...

P.S.

You can own property legally, but only apartments.

[drgonzo]

[sidjameson]

3E I wouldn't bother saving too much for the future as the way you smoke you don't have one. Have you ever thought of giving up?

Life is the most precious thing there is. I have an uncle who is now dying from cancer. He's scared and clinging on to life. Of course we are all going to be like that one day, but smoking brings that day closer, that's for sure.

Not relevant I know, and 3E is probably just trying to be amusing in a flippant way, but I feel it can't be said enough. Life is precious.

[xsbir]

[-3E-]

My real future aspiration would be.... to make a new ESL school.... Being the owner.... And well i'd want to make the teachers paid lucratively.... you know... try to pay them like 30 a month.... if they had credentials... allow them to get most of the monetary gain if they did a private course.... so on and so forth.... you know.... make it so sweet i had the best teachers in my school.... and give them free coffee and cigarettes..... oh and free lunch.... maybe even breakfast too....

[Chester]

you cant own a school, or any other business there dude. unless you are an indonesian citizen, or its a joint venture, which is so complicated its a minefield, also you will inevitably be cheated out of.

[-3E-]

You said future which means not in the present or the past. This means some time at a later date in which it is not now. Do you know what rules and laws and so forth will be held in the future?

Besides that, what you just said is wrong in so many ways, but you are right in many ways...

You imply that all Indonesians are charlatans, cheats, rogues, swindlers, scoundrels, scamps, reprobates, scallawags and dishonest. That sort of broad generalizing statement in itself makes you a charlatan of the utmost despicable nature.

[rayman]

I started at EF with a BA and PGCE. Then moved to an international school where I taught mainstream subjects. After I couple of years I moved on to my current position at a superior international school in terms of pay and conditions. I've also started a Masters in International Education to boost the credentials and put more in better stead for the next move.

I'm certainly not unique. I know of quite a few in Jakarta that have gone the same route.

[ezekiel]

DRGONZO-
Thank you for your insight into the hierarchic structure of ESL teacher categories in Indonesia..I am interested, if these are indeed the definitive categories where do I fit in to your scheme..maybe I don't exist at all if I'm not in one!?
Your closest fitting category for me is your "others" category..but I don't like it very much..
Yes, I get a measly salary but it's better than most and enough to support myself, my wife and 2 kids comfortably (I run a car, we go out, I play in a band)..I'm a young man and my young wife is from here and we choose, at present, to live here and bring our children up here rather than in the UK (is that alright?) -while we do that I can teach, there's not much else unless you wrangle your way into an NGO job based purely on your cup-cake baking skills.
I'm not running away from the UK but doing what I pray is the best thing for my mixed nationality kids..
Also, and I think you missed this point entirely, so many teachers enjoy the job..you know, genuinely enjoy teaching English.
So what's your category drgonzo? or are you in a special one?

Chester's question was a valid one and he was trying to be positive which is a lost quality in this forum. Correct me if I'm wrong but he was asking for stories about people's achievements and their experiences..not a bunch of stereotypes..it is always an error when one gives advice based solely on what one sees around them..harsh but fair, no?
(oh, by the way, you're American at a guess, right? How much of a crap is your Federal pension going to be worth by the time you take it?..as much as State pension in UK will be? hehe. Anyways, one can always continue making pension contributions from overseas, that's easy.)

CHESTER- achievements and inspiration..nice question!
Yes, long term..no not giving up easily.
Enjoy the job pretty much every day.
Only have a CELTA qualification from UK but 3 years + classroom experience.
Pushing my boss to put me through DELTA training hopefully during my next contract as the money here is / will be either international school or teacher training in the future and it will be an advantage for my company to have teacher trainers on board..my plan is to teach teachers how to!
Also we are training for Cambridge ESOL exam invigilating and ESL teaching through Cambridge Uni which I can then use back in Blighty later..unless I stay..if I stay long enough will consider pushing for KIMS visa (permanent stay) if I'm in the right position and if I can get it.

Please get in touch if you need info about some positive (or negative) real-life teaching experiences in Indonesia.

[drgonzo]

Ezekiel,

No, I am not a Yank, and no I am not relying solely on the government provided pension fund. One of the companies I work for matches any contribution I make into a registered retirement savings plan by 40% which also reduces the amount of tax that I pay - and they are actually good for it... I don't have to fight with them to get paid -- these savings go straight into mutual funds that earn a minimum of 12%... good enough?. The other company I work for provides one of the best pension plans in the country.

It is good that you and Rayman have the determination and foresight to seek additional training and try to achieve as much as possible, but that is unlike the vast majority of ESL teachers that I met.

I met too many people that had better hope to die before they have to retire, because they don't have a pot to Pi$$ in, negative equity, and no hope.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh in that posting.... sometimes the truth hurts.

Can I ask... how to you plan to educate your kids? On an ESL salary you won't be able to send them to an International School, unless you work for one and they let your kids go for free... or will you be sending them to a regular Indonesian school where they will get a stellar education? British education might not be the best either... but it is likely better than the local Indonesian education system...

[sidjameson]

Ezekiel sounds as if he is doing well for himself in my opinion. He has made a life for himself, provides for his family and enjoys his job.

I worked in Indonesia ten years ago and am thinking of returning, but I am glad I left because as has already been stated Indonesia is a place for the younger or older teacher. (or those with a trust fund)

Ezekiel is doing well for himself, but is walking a tight rope. He says he is a young man. Now lets suppose he works for 10 more years in Indonesia. Presumably he is in his mid 30s.

He "may" be divorced---50% marriages end up this way so only a fool should think it could "never happen to them" Could his salary pay for two homes? It would be hard teaching English.

Indonesia "may" collapse/meltdown financially/ kick out foreigners---don't have to explain the reality of this to anyone who has lived there.

He "may" be unable to find work due to sickness/wife's sickness etc---Indonesia is no place to become one of the poor.

He "may" get sick and tired of teaching---happens to the best of us, no matter how much we enjoy it. I certainly can't imagine teaching the same old thing for the next 20 years.---Very few other jobs available for an unskilled TEFLer

He "may" want to go back home. Mid 30's with "Indonesian" savings. He would return without a pot to piss in. House prices would be way beyond him. Without any skills to do anything other than the low paid carp that makes life in the west so awful. If he didn't have family to help him back home then this option may literally be impossible.

Now, people do walk tight ropes and some make it to the other side. But if you are going to do it then at least have your eyes wide open before you set off. Best of luck to all who decide to give the best years of their life to Indonesia.

[nasigoreng]