Job Discussion Forums

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: Job placements on TESOL courses.

As some of you know, I'm both the administrator, and one of the trainers, on the SIT TESOL course here in Ecuador. As we're not running another course until July, one of my current responsibilities is taking applications and corresponding with applicants, making sure that they meet course requirements and that the course can offer them what they're looking for.

Recently, though, far too many applicants have the same question: Do you guarantee job placement?

We don't. No one has ever done our course and then failed to find a job, if they looked for one, here in Ecuador. But by guarantee, a lot of applicants seem to mean "if I don't find a job, will I get my money back?" And frankly, they won't, and in my opinion, shouldn't. We're offering a high quality academic course, which is worth the price we put on it. If you took a college course in the US, and then didn't work in that field, would you blame the school? I see us as providing the tools, but finding a job is up to the participant.

I guess my question here is, are there any reputable course that do guarantee job placement? Because the ones I've seen look like scams if you read the small print. Does anybody know of any that are otherwise?

Because, although I don't know of a good program with a placement guarantee, these guarantees are coloring the expectations of a lot of my applicants. Everybody seems to want a sure thing; I can't responsibly offer one. I know I've lost participants who have gone off to do "guaranteed" programs...and been dissappointed.

Suggestions?

Best,
Justin

wildchild · Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Puebla 2009 - 2010

Say someone is heart-set on finding a job in Quito but fails and they are heart broken and they just want to return to their home country and they want a refund, maybe you could give the refund but be sure to keep their certificate. If they want to keep the certificate, then no refund.

This might only work for Quito and places where you have contacts because you would be able to verify if they were able to find a job or not. You might also ask for copies of their plane ticket that shows they are actually leaving and going back home.

Just an idea.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I'm familiar with maybe 12-15 different training courses offered in North America and Europe. The reputable ones offer ASSISTANCE with job-search, usually meaning they have contacts at a range of reputable schools and can also hook trainees up with current 'positions open' adverts.

My opinion is that it is entirely unrealistic to expect a training centre to guarantee a job under any circumstances. This is the real world, (whatever people may think to the contrary!) and candidates for positions have to show up for job interviews and make their cases personally to a DOS before being hired. Realistically, the training centre can't do more than help the candidate find suitable openings.

In my personal experience, the courses offering 'guaranteed' job placement are scams - it's usually those off-site courses without teaching practice that put these kinds of claims in their all-too-well-marketed literature.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

I think it's difficult to guarantee job placement. BUt I also have seen courses that do. I think what they usually do is guarantee a job at the place where they took the course and it's usually low pay as well.

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

I used to get a ton of applications from people who'd done a one-month course and then were looking for work. Problem is that most of these people were from the US and had no work visa, so couldn't be employed. I really wish the course administrators had made it clear to people before they joined the course about legal difficulties working in Italy when you're not EU.

tedkarma · Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:54 am Post subject:

When I was teacher training - the company I worked for always got the same question - and students always asked me too.

My reply was - how can any reputable company guarantee a job placement? We don't know if you will go to an interview drunk, stinking of booze and incoherent - or even make any effort at all?

The company I worked for DID guarantee a job - but you had to read the fine print really well to understand that they really didn't - they just said that if you tried you'd find one. And that was pretty much true in most of Thailand. Didn't know anyone who didn't find one - unless they have very unrealistic expectations (which is another limitation).

Another company (quite well-known!) I am aware of requires a quite unrealistic number of rejection letters be submitted - and since the most common rejection of all is no reply - or verbal - how one would get that number is beyond me. So, it too, is not really a guarantee.

Being real and truthful I think is a far better sales tool than some BS - but then I am quite naive and never was a great salesperson . . .

Margot73 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 145 Location: New York City

Even those cheesy certificate programs you see advertised on tv ("Choose your new careeer!! Taxidermy, private investigation, medical billing and 100's more!") don't even guarantee a job. They just offer "placement assistance." I would be wary of any school which did guarantee a job.

Sherri · Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject:

I agree with everything you already said Justin. It is the sign of being reputable not to guarantee job placement. It is like saying to students on a TOEFL course that you guarantee that their score will improve, there are just too many factor that you can't control!

Sherri

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I see what you're saying, wildchild, but...

What they go on to do with it, though we're happy to offer support, isn't really my issue. They receive a training course, and certification of the fact, provided that they pass the course. This is what they're paying us for- an academically sound course, with well prepared instructors and facilities. Having received that, I can't see any reason to offer refunds based on their activities after the fact. I'm worried that having such a policy in place (as you recommend) would leave me vulnerable to offering the course free for people who don't want to stay in Quito. In any case, anyone who looks in Quito is going to find something, unless their expectations are too high, or they go to interviews drunk and filthy.

I spent a considerable sum on a university education in the field of theatre- should they give me the money back now that I've chosen to do something else? (Oh, I wish they would go for it! I still owe money...)

THanks again, everybody, and happy weekend.

Justin

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

I think you could arrange job placement if you talk to some of the language schools where you have the course. If you have five or ten language schools that are willing to take on graduates when they have positions, you might be able to guarantee job placement.

YOu might also try to talk to some of the schools as well.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject:

Agreed; and it's obviously important to have job placement assistance for people who want to work in this market.

We do. Our graduates are working at practically all of the major language schools in Quito.

But guaranteeing it seems to me to mean something else.

The question that comes up again and again is- "If I don't find a job, will you give me the money back?"

And I guess this makes me nervous. I'm too honest a guy to make a pretend guarantee, and make it void through the many disclaimers that some organisations use. But I feel the course is worth our asking price, and that job hunting isn't entirely our responsibility.

All the best,

Justin

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

By SIT courses are you referring to the School for International Training in Brattleboro?

comenius · Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:11 am Post subject:

I would be suspicious of any school that guaranteed a job. If they do, do they also guarantee you will pass the course? If so, what does that say about the quality of the school?

If I were a student, I wouldn't want a teacher that was the product of a diploma mill. I'd want a teacher that was well trained and qualified, and that the school believed should be teaching, regardless of whether the teacher had paid them for training.

That being said, I also absolutely feel a training program has to offer job placement service. It shows the school is committed to the teachers it is training.

If you feel a guarantee is a requirement, perhaps tying it to getting some sort of mark on the final exam or the course itself?