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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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 Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| omanized wrote: |
Philosophy is nothing special - naval gazing, tail-chasing, mental mast..bation most of the time usually overvalued by those with nothing left to hold on to. Even the almighty power of reason ends up with nothing definitive when you go all the way - mostly clever semantic exercises with 'truth' derived from some level of faith in a precept which can't be ultimately proven - just another 'religion' if you really apply your 'deep thought and genuine understanding of the human condition' to it.
What is that true understanding of the human condition anyway? Man, you could make a buck or two selling that answer !
Anyway, there is no truth, only perception, assumption, stubborness, articulation, doubt, faith, cold beer, fine wine, sweet herb, good food, health, love, family happiness, sadness, revelation and death. Not necessarily in any order....
omzd |
To that, dear Philo, I shall only reply; the unexamined life is not worth living...suffice to say, religion is not examination, it is capitulation of the mind... |
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omanized
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's a tidy little answer. Do you expect the examining to end at some point? Where might that point be and what will you do afterwards? You might find that there will be a degree of faith in something in order to face that end.
Faith and blind allegiance to dogma are not at all one and the same - someday your cynicism might thaw and you will see that. This quote serves both sides.....
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| omanized wrote: |
Well, that's a tidy little answer. Do you expect the examining to end at some point? Where might that point be and what will you do afterwards? You might find that there will be a degree of faith in something in order to face that end.
Faith and blind allegiance to dogma are not at all one and the same - someday your cynicism might thaw and you will see that. This quote serves both sides.....
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." |
Of course when I cease to be, when my brain ceases to function and my existence is annihilated and that which was I is but void, then and only then will that examination find an end. Until then however, it, like all things in this brief life, is subject to the only constant: change. Faith...hmm...now we don't want to get around to that little rhinocerous, now do we? |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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I think this makes my general point that addressing the OP (regarding married folk) depends entirely on your underlying belief on the meaning (or lack thereof) of everything, including marriage.
Naturegirl - wish you well; I know you've looked at Russia/EE. Certainly the most important thing is to stay married  Your husband will have a hard time and few prospects in Russia, I am afraid. Only fluent/native English is really in demand. If you are dark-skinned, you could be taken for Caucasians (meaning people from the Caucus mountains) and harassed by police and radicals as well. The strongest demand for Spanish as a foreign language that I know of is in America - Florida, Texas and California.
To respond to FMS, I think it was quite obvious that I meant that philosophy is equally not an improvement on religion. Some religions are mind-numbingly simplistic and self-contradictory, and so are some philosophies, but there is no inherent superiority in philosophy.
Can quite agree with omanized except for the bit about truth. Certainly millions hold philosophies that they defend as fiercely as any religion.
| Quote: |
| Philosophy requires deep thought, contemplation and genuine understanding of the human condition and the universe we inhabit. |
So does a good religion.
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| religion requires believing absurd, untenable and poorly contrived propostions, often in contradiction to each other and almost always at variance with man's reason. |
So does a bad philosophy.
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| the unexamined life is not worth living...suffice to say, religion is not examination, it is capitulation of the mind... |
One wonders Whom you are rebelling against... |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| Naturegirl - wish you well; I know you've looked at Russia/EE. Certainly the most important thing is to stay married Your husband will have a hard time and few prospects in Russia, I am afraid. Only fluent/native English is really in demand. |
Thanks This thread's taken a turn, I certainly never intended for this thread to change to religion and philosophy. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Naturegirl,
Have you thought about returning to the US? If you want to have kids, it might be the easiest place for your husband to find work. You can still teach here. I do.
Best
Sherri |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't want to live in the USA. I'd been wanting to leave since I was 14, I've been out for 5 years now and don't want to go back. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Philosophy requires deep thought, contemplation and genuine understanding of the human condition and the universe we inhabit
So does a good religion. |
Huh? How does that work? Thinking deeply..the doctrine of the Trinity must be true...because the laws and the physical constants of the universe...err....no, that 's not it...oh yes, I want it to be true, so it must be.... 
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religion requires believing absurd, untenable and poorly contrived propostions, often in contradiction to each other and almost always at variance with man's reason
So does a bad philosophy. |
Agreed, yet it is hard to imagine a philosophy that could contain as much absursity as say, the three monotheisms...
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the unexamined life is not worth living...suffice to say, religion is not examination, it is capitulation of the mind...
One wonders Whom you are rebelling against... |
Most certainly not your imaginary sky daddy as you are wont to think...
Last edited by Deicide on Tue May 08, 2007 4:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I don't want to live in the USA. I'd been wanting to leave since I was 14, I've been out for 5 years now and don't want to go back. |
Is there any other predominately Spanish-speaking country where both Spanish and English would be strong cards? Spain would be the most different from South America. (Just casting ideas)
You really want your husband to be happy, too, and not feel like a third wheel or helpless - that could eventually cause cracks in the marriage. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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[quote="rusmeister"]
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I don't want to live in the USA. I'd been wanting to leave since I was 14, I've been out for 5 years now and don't want to go back. |
Is there any other predominately Spanish-speaking country where both Spanish and English would be strong cards? Spain would be the most different from South America. (Just casting ideas)
You really want your husband to be happy, too, and not feel like a third wheel or helpless - that could eventually cause cracks in the marriage.[/quote]
Sigh, divorce is a real bitch... |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I pity that view of marriage. It is a sad and hopeless one. |
Depends on the marriage, I suppose. In some cases, it's merely accurate.
Good luck to you, naturegirl. (And here's hoping that there's no slavery involved.) The heavy difficulty in see in your case is a simple one- you are well suited to an international life, with the background and qualifications that make it possible for you to find work in many, many places. Your husband isn't. It's gonna be rough if you go where your prospects are best, because in many of those places, he has virtually no prospects at all. I've seen situations where this can work out, usually if one half of the couple is happy being a "house-spouse," and the other earns enough to support both. But being a stay at home hubby is hard, especially in the many countries where this is seen as being woman's work, and where he would be looked down on for being supported by you. But add to this stigma the fact that he'll find it much harder to integrate than you will, having no workmates and no built in social circle,...it can be really rough. Does he speak English?
I hope this isn't too bleak a picture- if you want it bad enough, you'll find a way.
But in my opinion, the best way may be for your husband to go back to school- if you want to have a successful, international life together, the skills and qualifications he has may not be the ones he most needs. Can you wait in Peru for a few more years while he gets a degree in teaching Spanish? Or something...(assuming, of course, that divorce is not an option..  )
And to those of you who are spending the thread debating marriage- I say, to each her own. If you want to dedicate a good part of your lives to an institution that I happen to find anachronistic, well...enjoy! If you really don't see the reasons given for marriage as valid, nobody's forcing you.
Best,
Justin
Last edited by Justin Trullinger on Tue May 08, 2007 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
| But in my opinion, the best way may be for your husband to go back to school- if you want to have a successful, international life together, the skills and qualifications he has may not be the ones he most needs. Can you wait in Peru for a few more years while he gets a degree in teaching Spanish? Or something...(assuming, of course, that divorce is not an option.. ) |
Yes, we'll be here in Peru for a while. Not too long, though I don't know about getting a degree, it takes 5 more years, plus a thesis and then it's not really recognised too much outside of Peru, though he's studying international courses, Microsoft, Oracle and Cisco. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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THose are good qualifications to have- is he taking them in English?
Our IT guy is a good friend of mine, and has done some of the same courses- the problem he's had, though he understands enough English to get through the courses, is that he doesn't really speak any language but Spanish. This limits his overseas options a lot (he wants to emmigrate), because while those skills are marketable anywhere, employers want someone who can use those programs, and speak the local language.
Best of luck,
Justin
Last edited by Justin Trullinger on Tue May 08, 2007 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| No, he's doing them in Spanish, another reason why we are still here. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| No, he's doing them in Spanish, another reason why we are still here. |
Your husband is monolingual? How did that happen? |
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