Job Discussion Forums

[SanChong]

I generally go out of my way to be friendly to new posters and we have a responsibility to do so.

However, I also think new posters who are interested in teaching in Taiwan should present themselves with a certain degree of discretion. I'm not saying they have to have perfect grammar/writing, or act in any formulaic way. However, I think there are some basic standards we can ask for on this board.

In that regard, I think Toe Save has a very fair point. Granted, he has expressed it in his own way (which I do enjoy and is growing on me more and more) and it could have been said in a less confrontational way.
That said, he is right: Marina's posts were difficult to read and from reading the tone of her posts it wouldn't be surprising if she had a difficult time in Taiwan.

It's always hard to make judgements online, but it's also fair to make some educated guesses.

Anyway, this discussion shouldn't discourage anyone from posting. We are a friendly bunch and are happy to answer your questions, if you have them!

[MomCat]

SanChong,

I agree with you about expecting (or at least hoping) a new poster will show a little decorum and I also wonder how well the OP would be able to handle the stress that comes with moving into a new culture and hope she seriously considers her decision.

There are very few new posters to this board who stay and become regulars. Their antics or decorum are of less concern to me that a "regular" whose posts help define the personality of the board. As you said, TS's style has had to grow on you. It can be quite off-putting to someone who has no experience with it and no way to really know how to take it.

I still maintain that unasked for advice will not usually be met with gratitude.

I've received a lot of advice from you and others on this board that I sincerely appreciate. I know how valuable good advice can be.

Cat

[BigWally]

[AQUA MARINA]

It's not what you say, but the way you say it. There is such thing as positive criticism vs. bitter sarcasm. I've read other forums and see alot of spelling and grammer errors and don't see anyone being ripped apart. I think it is pretty ignoramt to assume where someone is coming from. I've lived in over 5 different countries and loathe people who are highly opinionated who presume to know it all. You can make your point without being self-righteous. To make an example out of one person is not very admirable quality to have and has nothing to do with just giving the info flat out. There's a time and place and I am sadend to think that there are people on this website who feel that TOE is right about what he did. He's given me his thoughts, that's fine and some more which i don't appreciate. It should have been left at that.

BTW, he's not funny to those who think he is.

[guilao]

Before this thread became distracted, we were talking about salaries in Taiwan. It was mentioned that income can be supplemented, illegally, by tutoring. Though illegal, this seems to be accepted in practice. So, I'm not worried about that.

At a Taiwanese EFL camp last summer, an experienced expat from Canada advised me that with an MA I could demand 1500/hour for private tutoring. Sounds sweet, but is this an exaggerated figure?

Also, for legal work, what kinds of salaries should I expect to be offered, once I have MA in hand?

Thanks.

[KaiFeng]

Not exaggerated at all. At all. You have to present yourself and market yourself correctly, and this is quite accessible.

[Toe Save]

[KaiFeng]

Toe Save is quite correct about this being high end of the spectrum. The key idea here is to seek out that high end of the spectrum:

- Corporate work, where you present yourself as a consultant or trainer or staff development specialist, not just an "English teacher".
- English for Special Purposes work: business presentations, job interviews, interviewing techniques (for journalists), etc.
- High-end clients: doctors, executives, government officials. But some parents will invest in their children at this pay rate too.
- ESL-related work: editing essays, editing legal documents, handling business writing, etc.

It also takes time to find and develop these opportunities, needless to say. But they are absolutely out there, I absolutely did this, and you'll absolutely never reach this slaving away over a hot whiteboard at Hess or Kojen. Read some books on consulting practices, on sales, on marketing, and on networking.

But- full disclosure- I lived in Taiwan for twenty years or so, and did not achieve this all overnight. The lower rates for newbs are accurate. So try this: fill up most of your schedule with swill, and then save 15% to 20% of your time for high-end work. Say something like this:

"Well, I'm already committed forty hours a week, but I'd be happy to adjust my schedule for you for your convenience. (Pick a time.) It's just that the work I'm doing at that time pays $1400 an hour (or whatever), so I hope you (or your company) wouldn't mind if I were to ask for the same rate I'm already getting then."

What could be more reasonable? I regularly used this successfully.

Good luck!

[BigWally]

[JZer]

[Ki]

I was going to contradict you there Jzer on the basis that employers here are more interested in how you look than how good you are. But then I saw you wrote should, (not would). I cannot comment on how much the poster should be paid without knowing him/her further. How much he/she would be paid as a foreigner would be about 600 an hour though, everything else depending.

[JZer]

Often the same in Korea. There are people who get hired at universities with a B.A. over people with higher degrees.

[BigWally]

bump....another good post for newbies

[Nadrazi]

[MomCat]