Job Discussion Forums

[merlin]

[J.]

But just to say I was also flirting with the idea. I went back to college in my mid-forties and have been teaching for about 10 years. At that mark, I think one tends to be thinking of doing more/ stretching oneself in another direction, whether one is 35 or 55.

Just a little note to merlin and any others that are assuming that everyone around 60 is out in the pasture, or deserves to be, I think you might want to take a look at what people of that age are doing these days. A lot of us aren't even thinking of retirement yet.

If you're healthy, do what you love. You still have time. If you're enthusiastic and talented, you can be great at any age. The key is not to believe the ageists. Brain death precedes death of the body, in some by about 70 years.

[Serious_Fun]

[shuize]

[globalnomad2]

Thanks for all the comments; they do help.

Frank McCourt published his first--and, or course, wildly popular--book at age 67. I feel like my creative writing is improving, yes, but also that the doctoral program would kick me in the *** to work harder and produce a better book. With first a print journalist's background and then two decades of teaching EFL and reading preposterous student "essays," the transition to publishable creative writing has been interesting but not quite ready for prime time.

[carnac]

I am 61, have an MSc in Tesol, teach and administrate in the Arabian Gulf. Was recently offered a free PhD (tuition, books, everything) by my U. Turned it down, with thanks. Money and satisfaction with life at this stage more important. Job is very good; environment not bad. Have wanted PhD for a long time, but only recently took a hard lookand made decision. Vanity? PhD after my name? Don't need it. I know who I am.
In a field such as Linguistics, a PhD helps get published and get your thoughts out into the world for publication. A semi- or actual science. Creative writing PhD? Possible, and a fairly new field, I think. (See Steven King's book on writing; also see Mark Twain.) Lots of theory there. Who will publish you? (PhDs MUST publish.)
Do this for your own personal satisfaction in order to die a PhD. ("Jeez, look at this dead guy! He was a PhD!) Or, find something else that is personally satisfying and challenging, that you can do from where you are in life. It can't be for the money: you will lose.
"It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have."
A PhD program to "kick you in the a**"?
Kick yourself there instead. You look for something from outside which can only come from the inside of you. A PhD program makes you work like a donkey to get a piece of paper which does little for you in terms of creativity: mostly, it proves you are a good donkey. (I have mentored many PhD candidates, and this is, at least, my experience.)
At age 61, either you can do it or you can't. A PhD whatever is no miracle, especially for your own writing. I suspect it might be stultifying for you.
Go to a good library, if you are in a Western country. Lots of books by great writers about the art of writing. Teach yourself. Listen to them.
You will earn your own personal PhD while you continue to earn decent (hopefully) money.
Whatever you decide, I wish you well.
Best wishes, and all the very best to you. I completely understand.

[Henry_Cowell]

[globalnomad2]

The first book is written, as well as other things that you haven't read and thus are in a poor position to judge.

[Henry_Cowell]

So why in the world do you think you need a Ph.D. to get another book written? A Ph.D. will not solve writer's block. Do you think it will help you get a book published in a country other than Malaysia?

[globalnomad2]

There is no writer's block, and I never said my stuff was poor, unpublished or unpublishable. The PhD programs are free; they offer assistantships with tuition waiver and stipend. Part of the PhD consideration was the opportunity to teach native speakers in the home country--tenure track not necessary. I have seen all the arguments, but in any case, it has been about 6 weeks or more since I started this thread and I have meanwhile re-examined the finances and investment portfolio and decided I'd rather just be comfortable financially by working another 6 or 8 years, and freelancing in my free time.

[Henry_Cowell]

You already know that you can teach native speakers with only an MFA or MA (at community colleges). Are you so awed by the mythic prestige of the Ph.D. that you would want to get one in a wholly inappropriate area such as "creative writing"?

[carnac]

Dear Mr. (I assume, perhaps erroneously) Nomad:
I never in any way intended to express doubt about your writing, and only intended, in a friendly, collegial way, to express my own thoughts about your original question, the PhD., using my own experience to submit to you my view of your quandary.
I would very much appreciate your posting of the title of the book you have published, and publisher, as I am appreciative of every form of writing, from fiction to quantum mechanics, and am constantly in search of great things to read. If I can, I will purchase a copy through Amazon, unless of course they have neglected to pick it up, in which case I will ask you directly how I may find it.
Thanks very much, and good luck should you continue your pursuit of the PhD Grail.

[tedkarma]

[globalnomad2]

Carnac: No problem at all--I was replying defensively to our nattering nabob of negativity, H. Cowell--not to you. Your post was perfectly reasonable. I did mention previously (see quote above in Tedkarma's post) that the book has not been published. I continue to try to make it more saleable in the US (after all, it's more of a business nowadays than ever; James Joyce, for example, would never get published in today's market), and there are other projects I work on to keep me out of the crack houses.

[Stephen Jones]