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JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

The way I was taught, is that "whom" is indeed used in an objective case, whereas "who" is a subjective pronoun.

Therefore, in this example: "whom" is correct:

"With whom do you wish to speak?"

However, having said that, it was then explained to me that even in such cases, "who" has become equally correct. Hence:

"With who do you wish to speak?" Even though years ago this would have been seen as incorrect, today it is well accepted.

However, if you really care about knowing the proper usage of WHO versus WHOM, the first rule of deciding which is correct is to substitute "he/him" or "she/her" into the sentence. If it makes sense with "he/she" then use "who." If it's "him/her" then use "whom."

Therefore, I can answer my first query with: "With HIM do I wish to speak." This tells me that "whom" is the proper word.

But given the use of colloquial English, since we don't speak the King's English anymore, we also no longer avoid ending sentences with prepositions.... So, it's much more common to say, "Who do you want to speak to?"

If you are a purist, you can join the "Queen's English Society" here: http://www.queens-english-society.com/ I'm sure they're great to have around at parties.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

I don't know about awkward.... I know I've used it. "Who do you want to speak to?" Maybe I've just been in Japan too long.

Why? What would you say?

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:09 am Post subject:

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

markle · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 1316 Location: Out of Japan

Seeing as we have a couple pendants running around...

How about 'which' vs 'what'. I find myself saying things like 'What colour do you want?' I suspect that it's really wrong but I'm at a bit of as a loss as to why.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:15 am Post subject:

Perhaps you could invest in a copy of Swan as well, markle.

markle · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 1316 Location: Out of Japan

Thanks shriek,

I use Murphy.... when I can find it.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:37 am Post subject:

I have a copy of Murphy too, marple.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

markle · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 1316 Location: Out of Japan

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:48 am Post subject:

markle · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 1316 Location: Out of Japan

JonnyB61 · Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 216 Location: Japan

Just remembered something.

In the old King James version of The Lord's Prayer the first line went as follows:

Our Father, which art in Heaven,

Surely, who would have been better here. Still, they had strange ideas in those days.

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

I consider Hemingway old. Anything before the last twenty years = "old" to me. No offense to Ernest, as I like his writing, but he's an old man now (well, dead, but old nonetheless).

Which isn't to say whom is not important, but in conversation I can't say I've ever used it. And unless the student is going to be writing Victorian novels or an academic paper for a very strict teacher, I'd say that for all intents and purposes the two are basically the same when read or heard (but just don't write or say "whom" and you should be fine). Do disagree if you think I'm wrong, but it's a rather unnecessary complication to go into depth on when the time could be better used on pronunciation, etc, imo.

I guess I'm a Philistine. Oh well... at least it's nice to know I don't know exactly what I'm talking about on the subject.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: