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Japanese perception of EFL teachers
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canuck

Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: perceptions

nonsmoker wrote:

fluffyhamster wrote:

shuize wrote:

Again, not that I think there's anything to be ashamed of, but it really isn't that hard a job. Those who seem to think it is, or expect others to be impressed by their newly won "sensei" title, have a very inflated sense of self-importance, in my opinion.

It isn't that easy, otherwise students would be nattering away fluently in no time at all; but granted, it's easy to appear to be teaching something, in the average ESL class.

Preposterous! If you teach using the proper method and have a good personality, they will LEARN.

How many days have you taught in your life? And you know the proper methods?

nonsmoker

Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Exactly here and now.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: perceptions

canuck wrote:

nonsmoker wrote:

fluffyhamster wrote:

shuize wrote:

It isn't that easy, otherwise students would be nattering away fluently in no time at all; but granted, it's easy to appear to be teaching something, in the average ESL class.

Preposterous! If you teach using the proper method and have a good personality, they will LEARN.

How many days have you taught in your life? And you know the proper methods?

The proper method includes introduction, practice, repetition, evaluation, and use. The proper method also includes having a good personality and building rapport with your students. Capisce?

Edit: And I have taught a bit but I am not an expert and I don't mean to offend anybody. I just think the items that I listed as part of a Proper Method make sense. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject:

door3344 wrote:

Not sure what triggered that burst of anti Americanism,

You need to develop the ability to spot the use of "contrast". It is a tool often used in discussions to highlight the failings (or otherwise) in another persons argument. My apologies that your university never taught you that. Rolling Eyes

shuize

Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: Re: perceptions

fluffyhamster wrote:

shuize wrote:

It isn't that easy, otherwise students would be nattering away fluently in no time at all; but granted, it's easy to appear to be teaching something, in the average ESL class.

Whether students learn anything is usually determined by their own effort. In my opinion, teaching English is not hard. But if it makes you feel better, free to tell everyone that you think it is.

fluffyhamster

Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject:

I agree that student motivation and private study, thinking etc makes all the difference, but are you saying that effective teaching emerges almost miraculously from training such a CELTA provides, or at some random point thereafter? If so, I think you need to differentiate simply being able to get along with students (well, the less difficult ones at least) from most of the handwaving and time-filling that goes on in many (even those "approved") classes, and then all of that from genuine, individual expertise arising out of serious reflection and honest learning...not that all that sweat and effort on the teacher's part has to be evident in class (if anything, all that will remain to hint at it is a zest or passion for the teaching).

door3344

Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 18

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: perceptions

shuize wrote:

The version I've heard goes like this:

"Those who can't do, teach."

"Those who can't teach, teach ESL."

Again, not that I think there's anything to be ashamed of, but it really isn't that hard a job. Those who seem to think it is, or expect others to be impressed by their newly won "sensei" title, have a very inflated sense of self-importance, in my opinion.

Spot-on

Vince

Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject:

Leon30 wrote:

Why do you care how others judge you in this regard.

I'm not overly concerned about it and would gladly return to TEFL in Japan if I got the right opportunity. I was just wondering what other people's thoughts were.

Vince

Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese perception of EFL teachers

G Cthulhu wrote:

I think you're biasing the question by narrowing it to people that are actually qualified and dedicated.

There isn't much reason to ask about the perception of people who use eikaiwa as a pitstop job while having an extended party in Japan.

Quote:

Although, to be honest, I have little to no respect for the average master's degree in EFL: they're one of the the cornflake box qualifications of the academic world IMO. Yes, there are people out there that are experienced, qualified, and dedicated. They are, IME, the great minority though when it comes to Japan.

Is that fault of the academic field and profession, or of the Japanese industry that exists by supplying a steady stream of edutainers?

Quote:

There was plenty of tone in that post that took it beyond mere contrast.

Vince

Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: perceptions

shuize wrote:

In my opinion, teaching English is not hard.

Have you taught EFL professionally? Not an insinuation, just a question.

door3344

Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 18

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese perception of EFL teachers

Vince wrote:

Quote:

There was plenty of tone in that post that took it beyond mere contrast.

Plenty of tone, no sense.

shuize

Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: Re: perceptions

Vince wrote:

shuize wrote:

In my opinion, teaching English is not hard.

Have you taught EFL professionally?

Yes, I have. I've also worked in other fields. EFL is the easiest by far.

hentaigaijin

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject:

Vince wrote:

I talked to my wife again about the Japanese impression of EFL teachers. She said she had told people that I taught English to corporate and government employees (which was one of my jobs) so they wouldn't have a bad impression of me (and her). The Japanese must then perceive significant strata of EFL teachers. She said that was true, but that the Japanese perception tends to gravitate toward the lower end of eikaiwa teachers. The Japanese generally assume that people become EFL teachers because they can't hack real jobs in their home country, and that they're in Japan primarily to have fun, drink, and chase girls. I understand that there are EFL teachers who fit this to a tee, but there are also many decent people who do it because they enjoy teaching EFL and growing in Japan. But I think ingrained notions of status make it hard for most Japanese to give the decent teachers the benefit of the doubt.

She said that English speakers of all accents could get jobs, which sounds like the Japanese preoccupation with a correct accent. She also mentioned the increase in crime, which sounds like "all these foreigners being here can't be good."

I'd never suggest that EFL teachers should be counted among rocket scientists, but there's no reason to say that the properly trained EFL teacher is less worthy than a properly trained teacher of any other subject.

bang on. you got it exactly right. it is kind of worrying though, the number of graduates who are going into this low-skilled career which offers poor renumeration and very little in the way of career prospects.

we're becoming their dog's bitch. and not just in japan - all over!!! still... i like being a teacher and i don't mind teaching english or related subjects.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese perception of EFL teachers

door3344 wrote:

Plenty of tone, no sense.

So why the comment about anti-Americanism? Skin a bit thin?

nonsmoker

Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Exactly here and now.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese perception of EFL teachers

G Cthulhu wrote:

door3344 wrote:

Plenty of tone, no sense.

So why the comment about anti-Americanism? Skin a bit thin?

Don't hate America, hate its leadership.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese perception of EFL teachers

Vince wrote:

G Cthulhu wrote:

I think you're biasing the question by narrowing it to people that are actually qualified and dedicated.

There isn't much reason to ask about the perception of people who use eikaiwa as a pitstop job while having an extended party in Japan.

But the question was phrased in terms of the Japanese perception of the profession. Narrowing the discussion to a specific band within that profession doesn't make much sense when it is such a small minority and the Japanese themselves don't tend to recognise the distinction. You may as well ask the question and then confine the discussion to people the Falklands named George. Smile

Quote:

Is that fault of the academic field and profession, or of the Japanese industry that exists by supplying a steady stream of edutainers?

Japan takes what it gets, so I'd say it's the fault of the places churning out "teachers". IMO it's simply an example of what you get when you let the free market involve itself in education without any external standards being set: the vast majority of "qualifications" are garbage and the "teachers" are little better.

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