Job Discussion Forums

[mandarinstudent]

This is my first University gig teaching Oral English. I'm teaching a "topic based" course. Basically I have a book that is made up of various topics such as "Living together before marraige", "Pet peeves", "Unusual people", etc. Each chapter is only made up of a short dialogue with a short follow up activity...not much to work with for a 2 hour class. I am not there to teach grammar or writing, just Oral English. I went into it thinking that college students that have studied English for 8 years should be able to hold their own. In theory, I should be not talking very much and they should be practicing their oral English. I had all these ideas concerning debates, speeches, and such, but that is clearly not going to happen. Alot of these kids don't even have basic English skills, much less debating ability. I struggle to get simple sentences out of the students, forget about a lively conversation. It seems like the only solution is to break out some middle school English textbooks and start from scratch again, but that is not viable. I have to teach from the book I was given, and that book is based on topics, not on the grammar and vocabulary that my students are lacking.

What I want to ask is: Is anyone else in this situation? What do you do in a topic based Oral English class with students that can't (or won't even try to) discuss a topic? How do you get the students to talk? Is that even a possibility or should I just resign myself to the fact that I have to lecture about 80% of the time in an "Oral English" class? Any input is appreciated.

[tw]

[kev7161]

You know, if I were a student who has been forced to study a language for eight years or more and still can't/won't even make an effort, I'm sure I'd be laughing inside at yet another silly little foreign teacher trying to make me say "hello" and "good-bye" and "what's your name?" (giggle) - - IN COLLEGE!! (not a comment toward the OP, by the way - - just pointing out the inanity of our jobs here)

I feel bad, I really do, that English is mandatory for Chinese people in China to learn. I understand why the Chinese government pushes it, but surely there is demand to in some business fields to know Spanish or French or maybe even Korean!?! I say, make the students take English for a couple years in high school (to introduce them to the language and maybe spark the interest) but give them other options of foreign languages to take as well. It's a good idea to at least have a basic knowledge of a foreign language or two and it's probably also a good idea to let students study ones they are actually interested in learning! We'd get classes full of students that actually WANT to learn English and other Chinese students would be happy getting to do something they actually want to do for a change. Ah, to dream.

[xinpu]

If you persevere with the text book you and your class are in for a long and painfull time. Neither of you wants that.

On the other hand if you sit back and do nothing the more active students (assuming there are any) will complain and the others will all pile in as a) it's the chinese way and b) criticising the FT is easier than explaining why you are failing the course.

As an FT you are held to different standards by the students and staff. It's ok for the Chinese teacher to stand at the front and mumble about English and get the students to recite but that isn't your job (not saying you mumble just drawing a parallel).

So you need to find another way to get the students participating and for you to have a relaxing and possibly even fun class, which is part of the reason you are teaching here i presume.

3 Points

1. Have them recite passages aloud. Is it good for their English ? no! But it's what there used to and what they deep down really like doing, so let them do it. The positives are that it's so boring they'll appreciate your activities a bit more and by following a more conservative model they'll probably respect you a bit more.

2. Dialogues: Assume their English is on a similar level to your Chinese. Could you debate something in Chinese? Even if you really wanted to? probably not....so grade the level down and give them some dialogues. You can mae it more of a challange by making it a gap fill or removing half the dialogue.

3. Mix it up a bit: Speaking for the full hour is probably a bit much so try some other things. Dictate questions, similar to nreciting students fell real comfortable doing this and because it's been done so much it's become inate you'll not get any resistance to it. Try dictating some questions for them to answer, kills a lot of time and error correction gives them the impression they are learning something too. Plus repeating the question 5 times means they probably be able to answer it.

Anyway I have class now. bye

[Anda]

Cover the book quickly then do some photocopies from a site like below and put them in groups to come up with their own written take on the subject and get one from each group to read the group's work to the class.

http://www.topics-mag.com/

[Steppenwolf]

I think I know how you are feeling. Your order is too tall. Don't forget, oral classes are normally viewed as a path ot easy credits.

Your job description is too vague so you are relatively free in how you are going to go about it. You didn't mention class sizes, but they do matter a lot.

In smaller classes you could make them read those texts aloud one by one and quantify their pronunciation and intonation problems individually and overall as a class. If you understand phonics you might be able to help their enunciation of English words. But you would have to be able to transcribe English words phonetically; your students actually are quite competent at doing this but they can't use their ability to decipher the phonetic symbols to their advantage...

Reading aloud individually might help them get to grips with their own mispronunciations. You can also, perhaps, get them to read in a more lively, emotional, natural manner rather than their robotic way of speaking English.
I don't think you can engage them in good dialogues. You could succeed in enticing some to give their personal opinion on a given topic, of course - but you can't expect all of them to do that.

And while you might not want to discuss grammar with them I hold they need that very much too - correct sentences do not lead to the same mispronunciations as incorrect sentences do. I'm thinking in particular of the Subject-Verb Agreement problem.

[vikuk]

[kev7161]

I think reading out of a text for PART of the classtime has its merits. However, I would never use an entire class period doing only that. I'm thinking (hoping?) any other teacher that would use recitation would feel the same way. Yes, we do want them to start using the language more naturally by "conversing" with the students, but if even a small fraction of them are planning on going abroad, then I would think part of our job is to include pronunciation, enunciation, a bit of grammar correction, overcoming shyness in using the language, a bit of fun and games, and role-playing so they can "have at it" with each other. Memorization and recitation of poems and passages can be useful too. Singing songs, tongue twisters, chants, and other sort of patterned speaking can help.

In my opinion, simply talking to them about a topic then asking them open-ended questions in the hopes that someone out there will be able to answer is not necissarily an ideal way to run a "Conversation English" class.

[Katja84]

I'm surprised to hear you say that what your students are lacking is grammar and vocabulary - most of my experience from China is of students who know nothing but grammar and vocabulary! Are you sure that the problem is actually grammar and vocabulary and not that the students are only equipped with passive knowledge of these? Have you seen their textbooks in their other classes? Will they be able to translate a word to Chinese, even if they may not know the word in context? My problem was usually that although the students could do intensive reading lessons based on texts adapted from the Economist, they could not hold conversations on even the simplest of topics (which doesn't surprise me at all, considering the teaching methodology they are used to).

Regardless of where your students are to begin with, students from pre-intermediate to advanced will all benefit from classes in Oral English - the question is just how to go about teaching them. What often seems to work for me is to use lots of pre-made sentences for them to begin with, where they only have to add one word or two words (they'll want to look these up in a dictionary). Activities with handouts are excellent if the classes are small, because it makes them stick to the topic and they understand the instructions better if they have something to go from. Things like "find-someone-who" activities on a topic, where they will simply have to answer simple questions, usually work reasonably well, at least with the better half of the class. If it is a small class, you may later on be able to do role-plays on things like "going shopping", but don't give them too much freedom (put up five shops - greengrocers, newsagents etc and have some students man these, and then give the other students shopping lists of things to buy, for instance). Do plenty of pre-teaching for all activities, this is where you can add some grammar and vocabulary, but make sure this is only pre-teaching for the activity that follows. Sometimes I think the main problem is not so much their English, but the fact that they are not used to actually using it, and can't come up with ideas or examples "on the spot" the way we would expect of students in the West.

Even if the class is based on Oral English, I'd focus on communicative English more generally. Having them do writing exercises in which they actually have to think of what to say and how to get their ideas across can help them when they are speaking. Allowing them to write down what to say also gives them confidence.

If you really can't find activities based on the textbook topics, by all means go off topic if you can get away with it. Otherwise try to broaden the topic up a bit - on something like 'living together before marriage' perhaps you can broaden it up to do activities on relationships in general.

Don't give up on teaching them to speak, though - if there's anything students do need (regardless of English level) it's classes in oral English! Just don't ask them to be too imaginative, and to begin with, keep things very simple!

[shenyanggerry]

I usually start out by eliciting practice. Then I say 'does anyone need practice with their Chinese'. No hands go up. Then I say is there anyone that doesn't need practice with their English'. No hands go up. I point out that speaking English isn't something you study for; it's something you practice just like football or the piano. Then I explain how when I put them in groups to talk about things, they don't improve their English if they talk Chinese. I give them a topic to come up with results for and then watch their lips. If they're going too fast they're speaking Chinese - can't make them go that fast in English.

I start with a simple topic. Each group find three questions you'd like to ask my about myself. Groups of three or four are best. Then I ask and answer. Etc.

The problem is, to quote a member here: "They claim to have a vocabulary of 3000 words but they can't put together five of them
in a sentence".


PM me if you'd like some topics they can discuss without

[nickpellatt]

I teach grade one college students and have the same issue with some of them.

In most lessons, we do read passages...I read a line, they read a line...it isnt conversation, but it is speaking...many of them dont do any speaking, so its one step in the right direction at least...but it is only a short part of my lesson.

I may then do some true or false, based on the text...again, they must speak to answer...And I will then ask them why its true or false...again, they read back through and recite the reason why....again, at least its speaking.

I normally have dialogues in the textbook, we practise them and I will often then have random dialogues on the same topic, and they can answer in a similar fashion to the books dialogue, but it wont be the same. That way I feel they are at least trying to be creative with their english.

My students cannot discuss topics really...but if we have one...Ill give them prompts to express their thoughts and opinions...

An example...a travel lesson "Where would you travel if you were rich", we brainstorm to make a list of destination, a list of travel partners, a list of holiday activities and a list of duration of travel...

With some prompting, I can ask them, "where would you go?" and they can pick destinations from our list if needs be...etc....the better students have the chance to elaborate if they can....the worst can just read their answers in our dialogue.

Sometimes it works better than others.....

edited to add that i often take my students out to eat or to do something social too - you would be suprised how many of them can find a bit more of an english voice if you take them away from the classroom..

[mandarinstudent]

[diana83709]

I agree with Anda's response. I have my students do group work and 1 student will write their response to the topic. Then, they have the choice to have one student from the group read it to the class, act it out (several or all from the group) or present as a song. I encourage them to be creative, use their imaginations and have fun! While they are working in their groups, I check what they are writing, make grammar corrections and introduce new vocabulary. The students seem to enjoy this type of activity and it gets them thinking and talking. My students are 10th graders.

[Mydnight]

I detest, did I mention absolutely loathe, the type of class you describe; unfortunately it ends up being like 90 percent of ALL classes in China that are like this.

Take the advise of the blokes in this thread and the best of luck to you. If you plan on giving up, do so after you have found another job and maybe in the last month. I'm doing that with a school now; sad but true.