Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

Dear Truth Hurts,
Having never watched Fox News, I'm afraid I can't judge the appropriateness of your comparison. As for desperation's being a motivator, sure - my post did include this:

"Politics, power, xenophobia - these, AND OTHER FACTORS, may be the underlying driving forces." (capitalization added).

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was being all-inclusive in my "analysis". Also, not being able to get inside other people's heads (thank God), I can't say for sure, either, just who is/is not a homicidal maniac. Heck, I can't even define sanity/insanity. But I'll go out on a limb and opine that those who fit the following criteria:

1. that they believe they have a direct line to the Creator and are doing His/Her/Its will

2. that they believe that and they alone are in sole possession of the "truth"

3. that they believe the ends justify the means, howsoever homicidal

have at least one major screw loose. As for its being a "crazy world", well,
it can certainly seem that way (especially, I'd imagine, if one were to watch Fox News a lot). But I think it's healthy to remember that it's always the "bad guys" you read/hear about, not the billions of good, decent people. The "world" itself, I find incredibly lovely, and the vast majority of people who inhabit it, are, in my opinion, neither crazy nor evil. Almost everyone I encounter is just trying to do the best he/she can, often under very difficult circumstances. That, I think, is the "Truth", and you know - I'd say it doesn't always have to "Hurt".
Regards,
John

[Truth Hurts]

John

I'm sorry if my forum ID has been troubling you and I wouldn't want you to lose any more sleep over this. But to address your point about "truth", I refer you to what I believe to be one of the most remarkable works of the 20th century, namely "Manufacturing Consent" by Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375714499/104-8448020-8464733?v=glance

[I expect you know of it]

The book is a tribute to how sorely the 'Truth Hurts' and how it is carefully concealed in order to create the cosy world you seem to inhabit.

Here's a summary:

Contrary to the usual image of the news media as cantankerous, obstinate, and ubiquitous in their search for TRUTH and defense of justice, in their actual practice they defend the economic, social, and political agendas of the privileged groups that dominate domestic society, the state, and the global order. Based on a series of case studies�including the media�s dichotomous treatment of �worthy� versus �unworthy� victims, �legitimizing� and �meaningless� Third World elections, and devastating critiques of media coverage of the U.S. wars against Indochina�Herman and Chomsky draw on decades of criticism and research to propose a Propaganda Model to explain the media�s behavior and performance. Their new introduction updates the Propaganda Model and the earlier case studies, and it discusses several other applications. These include the manner in which the media covered the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement and subsequent Mexican financial meltdown of 1994-1995, the media�s handling of the protests against the World Trade Organization, World Bank, and International Monetary Fund in 1999 and 2000, and the media�s treatment of the chemical industry and its regulation. What emerges from this work is a powerful assessment of how propagandistic the U.S. mass media are, how they systematically fail to live up to their self-image as providers of the kind of information that people need to make sense of the world, and how we can understand their function in a radically new way.

Rgds

TRUTH HURTS

[MacMahon]

John slat wrote:

"So who - or rather what - is to blame for all this homicidal madness?"

I couldn't begin to answer that one. It draws on such a wider scope of issues.

Your average hardworking, friendly, Israeli and his Palestinian opposite are not to blame thats for sure. I know of orthodox Jews who are outraged at the practices of the Israeli army.

I have also met Palestinians who have expressed total disgust at suicide murders and they were "Mutawwa" but what does all this mean?

It's just me in my little world right?

Whatever reaches the mainstream public by way of "coverage" will have its political stamp attached to it and will strike its intended goal and perform its intended function. When ever reports lean toward semi-objective the reporters are lambasted and ridiculed.

Living in Saudi, as I do, I think so much more could be done accross the board to build on removing the wounds the media and others are so quick to throw salt on.

[johnslat]

Dear Truth Hurts,
Regarding your forum ID, I'd say it "troubles" me only in that it seems to imply two things:
1. that you KNOW what Truth is
and
2. that it's always unpleasant/hurtful
If I'm incorrect in making these inferences, I apologize.
Now, how about that "cozy world" I "seem to inhabit"? Would that be the cosy world I mentioned in my last post, the one in which I see the world itself as incredibly lovely and the vast majority of people who inhabit it as being neither crazy nor evil? The cosy world in which I think most people are simply trying to do the best they can, often under very difficult circumstances? Am I wrong in regarding your use of "cosy" as being patronizing, in suggesting that I am naive, deluded, inexperienced? That my "world-view", the product of my ingenuousness, is both incorrect and laughable? That you, however, see far deeper into the ultimate reality and
therefore know what's truly going on? Well, it won't do much good, I suspect, to "match experiences" with you, since experiences are not a very reliable indicator of understanding - only what one learns from them is. And that can't be measured or matched. And frankly, I'm not really sure just HOW we're supposedly disagreeing here. Are you under the mistaken impression that I, in my gullibility, swallow everything the media feeds me? ( Strange, since you apparently are the one who watches Fox News, not I. ) If that IS what you think, may I ask just how you arrived at that conclusion? So, would you specifically tell me what you meant by my "cosy world" and how you arrived at the belief that it is the one I inhabit?
Regards,
John

[Truth Hurts]

John

Well, I make a habit of watching or reading stuff that I might passionately disagree with - Fox News included. I see nothing unusual about this. In fact, you should try it yourself times. I trust you it won't HURT

Ok, what troubles me is when people replicate the usual bland generalizations like all Middle East terrorism is driven by religious zealots, or all Muslims are living in the Middle Ages or the Muslims are envious of our freedom, or all American foreign policy is driven by freedom and justice and so on and so on.

And returning to you point about your cozy world view, well, I'm only inferring what to me SEEMS to emerge from your post. If you tell me otherwise, I have no trouble accepting an alternative view.

Have a nice day

TH

[veiledsentiments]

Excuse my intrusion in the middle of you two - I may be in danger here, but I had to just add a little comment on something that JohnS wrote above:

"I can't even define sanity/insanity. But I'll go out on a limb and opine that those who fit the following criteria:

1. that they believe they have a direct line to the Creator and are doing His/Her/Its will
2. that they believe that and they alone are in sole possession of the "truth"
3. that they believe the ends justify the means, howsoever homicidal

have at least one major screw loose." to quote John S.

Now if that doesn't look like a spot on description of GWBush --- I just couldn't pass up highlighting it for those that may have missed it while following the debate.

Carry on guys

VS

[Truth Hurts]

VS

Apparently a British poll out today would seem to agree with your judgement

http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2181946

One in three Brits think Bush is stupid
37% think Bush is incoherent
60% think Bush is threat to world peace!!!

TH

[johnslat]

Dear Truth Hurts,
I ALWAYS try to avoid generalizations (hope you see the humor there)and "ex cathedra" pronouncements. That's why you so often see words/phrases such as
many, some, a few, often, sometimes, I'd say, I think, it's my opinion, seems, appears . . .
in my postings.
I don't think I know the Truth - all I have is opinions. As for the media, well, I hardly ever watch any TV or go to the movies and I don't subscribe to any newspapers or magazines. I DO surf the Net quite a lot since it SEEMS to me many more different "sides" to an issue are available on-line. Do religious zealots drive Middle Eastern terrorism? Certainly they do, in some cases. Are Muslims living in the Middle Ages? Some are, many aren't and some are living in the 21st century but with a "Middle Age mind-set". Are Muslims envious of our fredoms? Some surely are; others deplore those freedoms. And regarding American foreign policy, the only statement I can feel fairly safe about making is that its driven by PERCEIVED notions of American self-interest (just as I'd say every other country's foreign policy is). But you dodged the question, I think: how, specifically does the concept of "cosy" SEEM to emerge from my post? Is it in that I think that the vast majority of people are NOT crazy or evil? Is it in that I think that the people I encounter are basically good and decent, trying to do the best they can, often under very difficult circumstances? Hey, inquiring mind wants to KNOW.
Regards,
John

[johnslat]

Dear Truth Hurts,
This is very disturbing:

1. One in three Brits think Bush is stupid
2. 37% think Bush is incoherent
3. 60% think Bush is threat to world peace!!!

I conclude that

1. 66 2/3s of the British public are woefully uninformed.
2. 63% of the British public have never heard Dubya speak or read any of his statements
3. 40% of the British public are living in their own "cozy worlds"
Regards,
John