|
Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 222 Location: Kanto
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| . ALTs are mere assistants, if anything at all. And their role varies widely from classroom to classroom, because there is no clear, firmly established job description, or one that JTEs see as practical or useful. As such, many ALTs simply get put out to pasture. |
This is just not true of many places. In JET I had very little to do. Now I do 98.9 - 100% of what happens in the classroom- design lesson plans (with no input), make the materials (I have no textbook) deliver the classes (the JTEs stand in the corner and occasionally translate from English in Japanese people speaking English). |
Actually, re-read my comment above, and you are saying exactly what I said. ALT roles vary widely, from class to class. Some are underutilized, some overutilized. What this means is there's no clear job description or statement of purpose over and above the flowery feel-good talk about bridging the internationalization gap. After JET, I did private ALT work, at elementary school, and I did almost everything (lesson plans, bringing my own teaching materials/tools/games), and I conducted classes on my own, the JTE usually just hung around and watched from the back of the room. Under JET, in junior high, it was the polar opposite.
| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| But I'm not in JET anymore, and as I mentioned, the author isn't just talking about getting rid of JET, he's talking about getting rid of native speakers in the classroom in Japan. |
Agreed. His criticism goes deeper than JET. It's quite radical to suggest native speakers have no role or place at all in the high school education system. Not sure I'd take it that far. But his observations and criticisms of the ALT system and JTE are important, and accurate in my own experience as an ALT, and he seems to have done a fair bit of research into the matter. I think his opinion is a key part of the debate, and can't be easily dismissed as "missing the point" or whatever. I realize alot of people here have a vested interest in the ALT / JET status quo, so I don't expect alot of agreement with the article. But this debate is not about protecting the holiday gap years of new graduates eager to experience Japan. It's about addressing the questions: after 20 years of JET and billions of yen spent, why hasn't this program had the expected English communication dividend initially hoped? Why? And how can the system be altered to increase that dividend?
Last edited by User N. Ame on Thu May 31, 2007 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 222 Location: Kanto
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nismo wrote: |
2. I had to pause to laugh heartily at this one:
| Quote: |
"It seems there are no comprehensive studies with valid empirical evidence to show that the
presence of ALTs in junior and senior high school classrooms over the past nineteen years
has effected any notable advance in students� English language proficiency levels or the
quality of communicative language teaching (CLT) on a widespread scale in Japan. |
Because there are no studies that have been done, that means that the job should be abolished? Doesn't that really mean that studies should be done, first? |
Nor should an absence of empirical data be justification to keep the program. It cuts both ways. But consider the author's unique position. He was in Japan teaching English at university before JET, so he has seen JET educated high schoolers passing thru his university classes over the last 20 years, and in his professional, pedagical opinion, he sees no marked improvement in their English communication skills. I think you have to at least acknowledge that, even if you don't agree with his conclusions.
| Nismo wrote: |
| 3. It does cost a lot. But, so does maintaining public utilities. That's not a valid reason to get rid of the project. |
Nor is it a valid reason to keep it. If your water supply is tainted, or the source dry, you find a better, more cost-effective means of supplying it. Or in some cases, you tap a new source. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nagoyaguy
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
We have to remember that the JET Programme, and the use of ALTs in general, are quite different.
JET was not intended as a language teaching programme. It was designed for PR. The idea was for young college educated foreigners to come to Japan, enjoy the country for up to 3 years, and then GO HOME. Once home, and in the future, their JET experience would cause them to favor Japan, giver preference to Japanese points of view, etc. Basically, a long term PR device. This is why JETs who already lived in Japan for any length of time are excluded. This is also why, in the majority of cases, JETs are NOT permitted to work for more than 3 years.
Each JET that stays in Japan after finishing the programme is a failure.
ALTs are more purpose driven. THey are seen as language tools more than PR. Unfortunately, very few people (either JTEs or ALTs) have any idea how to effectively team teach. The curriculum and textbooks are not designed to facilitate communicative teaching either. So in most schools, everything is done offthe cuff. For JTEs, it can be frustrating, so they often just have the ALT act as a tape recorder rather than as a partner in the class. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 222 Location: Kanto
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nagoyaguy wrote: |
We have to remember that the JET Programme, and the use of ALTs in general, are quite different.
JET was not intended as a language teaching programme. It was designed for PR. The idea was for young college educated foreigners to come to Japan, enjoy the country for up to 3 years, and then GO HOME. Once home, and in the future, their JET experience would cause them to favor Japan, giver preference to Japanese points of view, etc. Basically, a long term PR device. |
This is a very interesting point, and one that tends to get overlooked. You are quite right that PR (or, a less polite way of putting it: propaganda) was integral to JET's initial mandate. The historical context is equally important. JET was established at the height of Japan's economic domination and boom years. The real questions and concerns about English communication didn't really start to get asked until after the bubble burst, when politicians realized that English may be more important to their global place in the world market than first thought.
So yes, JET initially was (and still is to a large extent) about selling Japan abroad. Korea and other Asian countries seem to have placed greater emphasis on English communication (over PR or internationalization), and not surprisingly, test results (which I don't have on hand) seem to indicate Japan's Asian counterparts have more English literate populations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nismo wrote: |
| I'd be willing to bet that if the ALT was not in the classroom, the class would be conducted entirely in Japanese. |
I'd also be willing to bet that without JETs the English level of the JTEs- especially in rural areas would be much much lower than it is- and that that is the unspoken reason why the JET program continues (to improve the communicative ability of the JTEs).
| Quote: |
Nismo's addition, number 5. It's not the fault of the ALTs that they are not properly employed in the classroom. If empirical evidence is all the rage, I'd like to employ some of my own: I have a few friends who are JET ALTs and want to do more work in lesson preparation, but are not given the go-ahead by their schools.
It's kind of silly to scrape an entire project that only needs to be fixed (and can be). I think most of the whinging comes from JTEs looking for a fall-back guy when their own classroom is not successful. And, yes, JTEs should be more qualified to teach in the classroom. A lot of them aren't. Knowing a language and employing a language are two different things, and that's why they hire ALTs to supplement the JTEs' shortcomings. They don't want overqualified ALTs, because then the JTEs would be out of jobs. |
But again, the author is NOT just referring to the JET programme. He refers to private ALTs who have vastly different jobs than JETs including things that Assistants really have no place doing, but they are called ALTs anyway (things like homerooms, curriculum design, test development and proctoring etc). In these cases often the ALT runs an Oral Communication class, and the JTE runs a grammar class with a text etc.
Also, as I mentioned before, Japan has a blame culture, and the thing that they DO have to accept is that their ability in Enlgish is much lower than that of their surrounding countries. Shit rolls downhill and there isn't much lower than the foreign teacher. So rather than admitting outright what Japanese teachers and others have been saying (but doing nothing about) for ages, that they need to have a systemic change in the approach to education in this country to get away from rote memorization and teaching to the test towards actual ability, they talk about scrapping the part that is mostly about communicative ability. The line of thinking seems to be "We aren't good at listening or speaking, or thinking creatively. If we simply do not teach or test these things then we will be good at everything we do. And save a huge amount of money on what amounts to a feel-good prgramme".
JET also exists to convince young people to go back to their home country saying how awesome Japan is so that they will want to get big businesses to do business with Japan. China is becomming known as the most quickly developing market and many Japanese companies want to jump on-board that. Some companies are now sending their employees to learn Chinese. Bringing tonnes of young Chinese here to convince them how awesome Japan is is obviously not going to work because of the history between the countries and the way so many Chinese are treated here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
flyingkiwi
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 211 Location: In the Golden Gai in Shinjuku, arguing with Mama-san over my tab
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Each JET that stays in Japan after finishing the programme is a failure. |
Can you explain this please? I am looking at working in Japan after JET, so do you consider me a 'failure'? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
The purpose is to get people who all really love Japan to go back to their home coutnry and instill that love of Japan into big businesses (like a computer worm!). If you stay in Japan you just milked the Japanese people out of their benefit from the programme. People who leave after their first year, or even worse before their first year contract is up are also failures because it costs so much to get a new person in (money that could be used for better things- like going into some Board of Education guy's pocket).
I'm a failure of the JET programme!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 562 Location: Japan
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am very happy to see a lot of people have made very valid points. I would like to just add my voice of support to say the JET program is not all about English teaching. If you don't understand this, you don't understand the program, and you are going to judge it on misguided criteria. It seems like many people on this board understand this fact, but unfortunately the author of that article doesn't.
There is a reason JET does not hire only qualified EFL teachers. There is a reason JET has age limits. There is a reason JET has a time limit for participation. There is a reason for the 3-years previous time in Japan limit. There is a reason not all JETs are English speakers and not all JETs are teachers. If the main point of the program was simply to raise the English ability of Japanese students, do you really think they would have designed it this way? NO.
I have heard form many ALTs that they are underused. This is sad. I think the answer is more training for JTE's about how to work with an ALT. I think it's ridiculous to blame the presence in the classroom of a native speaker for the failures of JTE's and Japanese EFL pedegogy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| JET was not intended as a language teaching programme. It was designed for PR. |
JET called it "internationalization".
| Quote: |
| The idea was for young college educated foreigners to come to Japan, enjoy the country for up to 3 years, and then GO HOME. |
And since its inception, this can be extended to 5 years sometimes. Comments on that one? BTW, do you call 39-year-olds "young"? Forty is the upper age limit for a JET ALT, y'know.
| Quote: |
| From the JET pamphlet: If also after careful consideration the Contracting Organisation deems the JET's work performance, level of experience and ability to be of an exceptionally high standard, they may choose to recontract the JET an additional two times (altogether, five years). Thus in exceptional cases, a Contracting Organisation could conceivably have the same JET working for them for five years in total (i.e. the JET recontracts 4 times). |
| Quote: |
| Once home, and in the future, their JET experience would cause them to favor Japan, giver preference to Japanese points of view, etc. Basically, a long term PR device. |
Ah, that's what you meant by PR. Well, then, I disagree. The PR I agreed to was JET's notion of internationalization. Since it has accepted ALTs from over 30 countries, it is obviously not for the purpose of teaching English only. It is meant to expose kids to foreigners and perhaps instill in them a sense of wonder and curiosity abou the world, and perhaps even stimulate their motivation to learn a foreign language (usually English).
| Quote: |
| This is why JETs who already lived in Japan for any length of time are excluded. |
Not so. People can be hired for the ALT position if...
This is also why, in the majority of cases, JETs are NOT permitted to work for more than 3 years.
| Quote: |
| From the pamphlet again: Not have lived in Japan for three or more years since 1999 |
So, obviously if you lived in Japan before then, you cannot be excluded, and if you lived here for 2 years and 11 months, you cannot.
| Quote: |
| Each JET that stays in Japan after finishing the programme is a failure |
. I think the JETs that have found other work would strongly disagree with you on this nebulous statement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nagoyaguy
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JET participants who stay in Japan after their stint on JET are failures in terms of the goals of the JET programme. They took the 9 million plus yen (if they stayed for 3 years) and said "thanks". They are not failures personally- if anything they are probably pretty clever for riding the gravy train and getting max personal benefit from it. They are, however, failures in the eyes of CLAIR because they aren'T going home and spreading the Good Word about Japan.
"Internationalization"? What the heck is that?
The fact that some JETs can now stay for up to 5 years (in very limited numbers and circumstances) shows that the programme organizers are starting to realize that they arent getting the results they hoped in terms of PR, so they may as well try to turn a few select JETs into useful classroom assistants.
If not PR, what other possible reason could there be to limit the majority of JETs to 3 years of service? After 3 years, a teacher/educator is probably just starting to learn some technique and style. Trading that person in for a new and probably unqualified employee makes no sense from an educational point of view.
Or even, come to think of it, from an "internationalization" point of view. A seasoned classroom veteran, probably with at least some facility in the Japanese language, would generally be far more effective in any kind of cultural exchange. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 222 Location: Kanto
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kdynamic wrote: |
| I have heard form many ALTs that they are underused. This is sad. I think the answer is more training for JTE's about how to work with an ALT. I think it's ridiculous to blame the presence in the classroom of a native speaker for the failures of JTE's and Japanese EFL pedegogy. |
The author of the article doesn't blame ALTs, rather, the pricey JET system that brings them over here to essentially serve as little more than quasi-diplomats, or asd Nagoyaguy so rightly puts it, PR agents. The author also agrees with you that JTEs deserve better training, but not in the skill of "team-teaching" - rather, in teaching English on their own. That would seem to make sense from a fundamentals vantage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
door3344
Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 18
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just to add my 2 cents worth- a selection committee member for the NET scheme in Hong Kong told me that they don't consider JET experience worth much when choosing candidates and the EMB in Hong Kong has been quite disappointed with the inability of a lot of ex JET teachers to effectively implement the more rigorous demands of the NET scheme.
The difference is that the NET scheme actively recruits trained and licensed teachers with the mandate of introducing certain western pedagogical practices (specifically ones relating to reading and IT) into the local curriculum. Foreigners, at least ideally, are hired to be agents of change; contributing to the modernization of how education is practiced there. Seems to me a more pragmatic use of ministry and tax payers resources than in promoting some half arsed concept of "internationalization". If that's their goal why not just take those funds and use them in promoting and facilitating student exchanges which would be more cost effective and probably foster more genuine connections between cultures than can be achieved by an overpriced, unqualified, human tape recorder. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ndorfn

Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 126
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| didnt read it, but lets face it, alts are a waste of money. cost the country loads, don't don't what they're doing, and are totally underutilised. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nismo

Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 520
|
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ndorfn wrote: |
| didnt read it, but lets face it, alts are a waste of money. cost the country loads, don't don't what they're doing, and are totally underutilised. |
Speaking from personal experience then, hey? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nismo

Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 520
|
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| User N. Ame wrote: |
| kdynamic wrote: |
| I have heard form many ALTs that they are underused. This is sad. I think the answer is more training for JTE's about how to work with an ALT. I think it's ridiculous to blame the presence in the classroom of a native speaker for the failures of JTE's and Japanese EFL pedegogy. |
The author of the article doesn't blame ALTs, rather, the pricey JET system that brings them over here to essentially serve as little more than quasi-diplomats, or asd Nagoyaguy so rightly puts it, PR agents. The author also agrees with you that JTEs deserve better training, but not in the skill of "team-teaching" - rather, in teaching English on their own. That would seem to make sense from a fundamentals vantage. |
What relationship does the job have with the author of the article where his opinion would matter at all? JET ALTs are not English professors, so saying that because they are not proficient at teaching English means that the job should be abolished is the same as me saying that coffee shop clerks are not proficient at making gourmet spaghetti so the job should be abolished.
His point about the JTEs not being properly trained is perfectly legitimate, because their job is English education. JET ALTs are living example boxes that serve to introduce the students to a foreign face. There is no dictionary as flexible as a living example. The author of the article just needs to adjust his own perception of what a JET ALT's job is.
I could just as easily say that a dictionary is terrible at teaching English. It doesn't even speak! It's how you use it that makes it a worthwhile tool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|