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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: Infinitives and gerunds within a conjunction? |
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Does anyone out there know for certain if using an infinitive (eg. to play) and a gerund (eg. playing) within a conjunctive sentence (eg. and, or, but) is ungrammatical. Most people I've talked to about this have told me that it is in fact ungrammatical, but I can't seem to find anything about it in the grammar books that I have.
-I like to play sports and watching movies.
-I hate cleaning my room but I like to do laundry.
-The best way to contact him is either calling his mobile or to send an email.
Yea or nea? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nay. It's called parallel sentence structure. Use the same ones. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I don't think it is ungrammatical per se, it is just poor style.
But for more on what Glenski was talking about click here. |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Infinitives and gerunds within a conjunction? |
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| Chris21 wrote: |
-I like to play sports and watching movies.
-I hate cleaning my room but I like to do laundry.
-The best way to contact him is either calling his mobile or to send an email.
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What Glenski said.
It is indeed not grammatical. And the link that furious provided gives great examples.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_parallel.html
We do not mix forms before and after the subordinate conjunction, and if we use clauses, we must retain the parallelism. Hence,
-I like to play sports and watch movies.
OR
-I like playing sports and watching movies.
-I hate cleaning my room but I like doing laundry.
OR
-I hate to clean my room but I like to do laundry.
-The best way to contact him is either calling his mobile or sending an email.
OR
-The best way to contact him is either to call his mobile or send an email.
Ockham's Razor DOES apply here: (entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity). In other words, using an infinitive followed by a continuous tense is much less parsimonious than using the same tense for both. Don't obfuscate the issue more than necessary. |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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How about these?:
I tried standing on a chair but I still wasn't able to reach it.
I remember setting my alarm-clock but I still wasn't able to wake up on time.
I remember filling in the coupon but I must have forgotten to post it. |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I can't help wondering and to tell the truth these clauses confuse me.
Okay someone PM Henry Cowell and Stephen Jones. |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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And here's a little corker from my Japanese wife:
Studying English is good for me but I don't do it to make you happy!
Which, incidentally is true! |
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markle
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| JonnyB61 wrote: |
How about these?:
I tried standing on a chair but I still wasn't able to reach it.
I remember setting my alarm-clock but I still wasn't able to wake up on time.
I remember filling in the coupon but I must have forgotten to post it. |
They're not the same kind of sentence. The examples the OP gave were dealing with choices and preferences and thus need to be parallel. Your sentences represent a causal relationship. Try this.
I tried standing on a chair to reach it but I still wasn't able to (reach it).
too much shochu again? |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| markle wrote: |
I tried standing on a chair to reach it but I still wasn't able to (reach it).
too much shochu again? |
You should be shot for mangling a perfectly good English sentence in that manner. However, as that's impossible, try it again with the other examples I've given.
And by the way, I'll do the shochu gags, Lad. You think of your own.  |
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JaredW
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 105
Location: teaching high school in Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Infinitives and gerunds within a conjunction? |
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| Chris21 wrote: |
Does anyone out there know for certain if using an infinitive (eg. to play) and a gerund (eg. playing) within a conjunctive sentence (eg. and, or, but) is ungrammatical. Most people I've talked to about this have told me that it is in fact ungrammatical, but I can't seem to find anything about it in the grammar books that I have.
-I like to play sports and watching movies.
-I hate cleaning my room but I like to do laundry.
-The best way to contact him is either calling his mobile or to send an email.
Yea or nea? |
The Rules:
Achieve parallel structure by--
1. A sentence with only one main verb in the sentence like the first example (I like to play sports and watching movies.) needs either infinitives or gerunds not both.
2. If there are two or more independent clauses, the parallel structure is achieved by making sure both main verbs are in the same tense. (I hate cleaning my room, but I like to do laundry)
Worked out examples:
1. I like to play sports and watching movies.
Like Glenski said, use parallel structure for this sentence.
A. I like to play sports and watch movies. This is correct because the "to watch" is redundant and unnecessary.
B. I like playing sports and watching movies.. Correct because you're using gerunds on both sides of the conjunction.
2. I hate cleaning my room, but I like to do laundry. This is correct, however, because there is already parallel structure. There are two independent clauses separated by a coordinating conjunction. The two verbs in the clauses are hate and like. Since they are in the same tense, thus parallel, this is correct.
3. The best way to contact him is either calling his mobile or to send an email. This sentence is very much like the first. You main verb is a linking verb /is/. Calling is the Predicate Nominative, and to send should be changed to sending. One main verb in a sentence means you have to use only gerunds or only infinitives.
4. Studying English is good for me, but I don't do it to make you happy! Remember, if there are two independent clauses, make sure the verbs are in the same tense. If they are, you achieve parallel structure. In this example, /is/ and /don't do/ are the two verbs. They are in the same tense, so they are parallel.
5. I tried standing on a chair but I still wasn't able to reach it.
Two independent clauses. Verbs are /tried/ and /was/. Same tense means parallel means correct. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris21 wrote: |
-I like to play sports and watching movies. GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT
-I hate cleaning my room but I like to do laundry. CORRECT
-The best way to contact him is either calling his mobile or to send an email. GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT |
| JaredW wrote: |
| Remember, if there are two independent clauses, make sure the verbs are in the same tense. |
Why? I can have two independent clauses with different tenses, and the sentence would be correct:
I hate cleaning my room, but I quite enjoyed it during my schooldays.
I can have two independent clauses with different tenses, and the sentence would be correct. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| JonnyB61 wrote: |
How about these?:
I tried standing on a chair but I still wasn't able to reach it.
I remember setting my alarm-clock but I still wasn't able to wake up on time.
I remember filling in the coupon but I must have forgotten to post it. |
All perfectly good and grammatically correct. |
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Sweeney Todd
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 71
Location: The Dosshouse Down the Mile End Road
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
I can have two independent clauses with different tenses, and the sentence would be correct:
I can have two independent clauses with different tenses, and the sentence would be correct. |
Don't repeat yourself when you're discussing grammar.
I say, don't repeat yourself whe......... |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, but how is this form of grammatical mistake any different from the "grammatical mistake" of splitting the infinitive? We all know that that was just a silly rule as was the "mistake" of ending a sentence with a preposition, so how does mixing infinitives with gerunds in Chris 21's examples (1 and 3) cause any problems other than with style? |
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JaredW
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 105
Location: teaching high school in Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| JaredW wrote: |
| Remember, if there are two independent clauses, make sure the verbs are in the same tense. |
Why? I can have two independent clauses with different tenses, and the sentence would be correct:
I hate cleaning my room, but I quite enjoyed it during my schooldays.
I can have two independent clauses with different tenses, and the sentence would be correct. |
This is an exception which allows one to switch tense to indicate a change in time frame from one action or state to another.
In your example, "I hate cleaning my room, but I quite enjoyed it during my schooldays," the main verb hate refers to the current state and enjoyed refers to a state that was completed before the current time frame.
I would've been more correct, though, in saying that as a general rule of thumb, sentences with two independent clauses should maintain the same verb tense because most sentences follow this pattern. |
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