Job Discussion Forums

kdynamic · Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 562 Location: Japan

I think he is from Japan. He is culturally Japanese. The question "where are you from?" is meant to illicit useful information about where you identify with culturally, ethnically, and nationally. Does he really see himself as "gaikokujin"? If you asked him if he is "nihonjin" would he say no? If he would say "yes" he is nihonjin, then I think he is from Japan. I think "Japanese-American" is a misnomer here, since Japanese-Americans have their own culture and identity seperate from the situation this kid is in. I would say he is 帰国子女日本人 if 'nihonjin' isn't descriptive enough.

Do you think he understands the difference between "where are you from" and "where were you born"? If someone is born in, say, Paris to US parents and moves to the US at a young age and grows up as an American speaking only English and is a US citizen, would you say he is wrong to grow up and say 'I'm American'? would you correct him and say "no, you're from France!" ?

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:20 am Post subject:

The thread title was "Where are you from?" whereas the poll question is "If a boy of foreign parents was born in the U.S. and only lived there for 2 years is he from the U.S.?"

I think it is perfectly acceptable to say that he is from Japan and also to say that he is from the US. In which case the answer to the poll would have to be "Yes" as an inclusive rather than an exclusive answer.

kdynamic is right in saying that he is culturally and linguistically Japanese but if the person answering the question said "No, I am not from the US but I am a US citizen, carry a US passport and I was born there" it would seem a little absurd. Remember that the US is a pluralist society and has no official language which means if you were to deny him his US nationality on the grounds that he doesn't fit your WASP-ish stereotype then you would have to deny it to many others too.

partialtone · Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 137 Location: CA

canuck · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 1921 Location: Japan

johanne · Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 189

I would say that student is a Japanese who happened to be born in the US so now has dual citizenship until he is 21. I wouldn't say he is "from" the US, as he has little connection to it.

One of my students is Mexican, but she was born in Japan. She has lived here for the last 6 years and will be returning to Mexico next year when her father's work in Japan is done. Both her parents are Mexican and she has gone to international school since she was 3. Spanish is her first language and English her second. She speaks virtually no Japanese. Although she says she loves living here if you ask here "Where are you from" she will say Mexico. The OP's student sounds exactly like her. He was a child of Japanese parents who happened to be living in the States when he was born. Since he only spent the first 2 years of his life there, in a Japanese household and was too young to go to school, he can hardly be considered American in the cultural sense, even if he does have the passport. It's just a technicality.

As someone else pointed out, I think he might very well be confusing, "where are you from" with "where were you born".

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject:

partialtone · Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 137 Location: CA

nonsmoker · Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject:

Of course he's from the US. He was born there, no? Just because he's ethnically Japanese because of his parents doesnt mean he's not American. He's from the US but he is both American and Japanese. Nothing wrong with that.

JonnyB61 · Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 216 Location: Japan

My mother was born in Toledo, Ohio, USA in 1934. She met my father in the Post Office Social Club in Manchester, England in 1956 aged 22. She became naturalised British in 1960 and she still lives in England now over half a century later.

The last time that I can remember her refering to herself as American was in 1971. These days she usually refers to herself as English until my brother and I both point out that she wasn't born in England so her nationality now is, in fact, British.

But then on the other hand, we won't accept that everyone who is born in England is English either.

I don't know how you we can square this circle. Maybe the speaker decides where his or her heart lies.

Nagoyaguy · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan

As for the boy in the OP;

DUe to the stupidity of Jus Soli laws, he is an American citizen by birth. However, culturally he is not "American", he just happened to be born there. "Where are you from" has a more esoteric meaning than simply stating the location of your birth.

As for choosing citizenship at age 21, that depends on the situation. Japanese law states that you must choose, yet in Canada for example, the government doesnt care. Further, they will also not tell anyone the status of your citizenship. I think the US is the same. So, the boy can simply do the paperwork at City Hall to officially declare his intention to take Japanese nationality, and still retain his US passport. A kind of "don't ask don't tell" policy.

ironopolis · Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Posts: 379

A couple of people above have already pointed out the possibility of the OP's student having confused 'where are you from?' and 'where were you born?' and from my experience of teaching Japanese students, I would guess it's quite likely that the same misunderstanding may have occured.

Many's the time that I've had students who were asked 'where are you from?' and soon after they had answered it became apparent that this was where they were born but they had moved away at a very early age and, other than birth, had little or no connection with that place.

The misunderstading might be that when Japanese speakers are asked "doko no shusshin desu ka?" they seem think of something which I reckon lies in the middle ground between what English speakers would think of when asked 'where are you from?' and 'where were you born?' respectively - assuming it's a case where the two are different places, of course. I find that most do understand well enough what English speakers are getting at when they ask 'where are you from?', but I could see those who are not yet past the word for word direct translation stage misunderstanding and feeling it's the place they actually "dropped out" at that they must answer with.

At the end of the day though, if the guy really does want to say he's from the US and that this is because he was both born there and has a US passport, I'd agree with furious and say let him do so and be done with it.

Big John Stud · Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 513

I agree with kdynamic! But again, telling the student where he is from is not my place!

Also to make his belief more clear. He actually refers to himself as gaikokujin. The bright side he always does his best in class!

And Nagoyaguy is correct about Japan's don't tell don't ask policy about dual citizenship. Legally one has to give up either Japan's or the other country's citizenship but if doesn't no one really cares.

Thanks again! Reading all these different perspectives has been interesting! I believe a person is from where ever he wants to be from. As the model goes, you are from where you heart is!

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:05 am Post subject:

Thanks Jim. Nice post.

Atlas* · Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:13 am Post subject:

just wondering what the students would think if you said i'm japanese. say you are a gaikokujin born in japan and only lived here for 2 years. even i think if you had lived here your whole life do you think that you would be accepted calling yourself japanese?
i think that like many others that you can call yourself whatever you want, wherever your heart lies, especially if you have done the paperwork to prove it. just made me think what people around the world would think if i starte to call myself japanese after i get permanent residency. Wink