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JimDunlop2

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| japanman wrote: |
| People walking into shops and rudely speaking to staff directly in English does my head in. |
Um.. Well, what language are they SUPPOSED TO speak? Presuming that the majority of them are indeed tourists and have absolutely no long-term plans to live here, why would they learn Japanese? I've visited Malaysia, Korea and Thailand recently but when I was there, I didn't speak a word of Malay, Korean nor Thai, respectively. Yeah, I walked into shops speaking in English too. Except when I didn't get anywhere with that, I busted out my Japanese (which worked EXCEEDINGLY well when I was in Korea) or one of the other languages I'm at least somewhat conversational in. I don't think I was rude.
I can understand people walking into shops and speaking RUDELY -- but they can speak rudely in just about any language. Yes, I've seen tourists in Kyoto trying to haggle with shopkeepers, for example -- blissfully unaware that haggling over price in Japan is quite taboo and rude.
But I think that japanman in his comment, exemplified quite perfectly the mindset of many Japanese people.... Which is exactly what prevents Japan from becoming a first-tier tourist destination -- the general attitude that people who come here should somehow adapt to Japanese language and culture. Yes, there's good tourists and there's rude ones, but as furious pointed out, no one's going to feel very welcome in Japan unless they learn what the hell "Yokoso" means -- and let's face it, most tourists, be they rude or polite, will not bother to do so just so they can take a vacation. |
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japanman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 281 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| If you fancy a little bit of a language for you go to a new country, i can recommend Pimsleur's conversation couses very much. I did the Instant Conversation Mandarin before a trip to Beijing and it helped me bridge the manners gap a little bit. i couldn't do much but I could do enough to be polite. |
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dove
Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 271 Location: USA/Japan
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: |
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The JNTO tourist information center in Tokyo (near the International Forum) is the best tourist office I have ever been to, in any country. They have information on any aspect of Japan you could ever think of. If you want to try tea ceremony, they have a pamphlet on it. If you want to visit a flea market, they have info on it. If you are interested in taking night buses, they have a brochure. Such helpful information, but relatively few takers.
I think Japan will never be a top tourist destination because of the perceived high costs and the lack of English speakers. Actually, I think a lot of people know enough English to help the average tourist, but Japanese people are so hesitant to use it. I don't think it is a fear of making mistakes. I think it is the fear that another Japanese person will see them using English and that person will assume they are trying to "show off." The fear mentality in this counrtry is what makes Japan so different from Thailand, Korea, Vietnam....there people don't have as many hang-ups. |
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japanman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 281 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| I saw on Japanese TV, they asked people on the street what they would do if a foreigner started speaking English to them on the street, the most common response was to run away. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 749 Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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It is in Hawaii. It is a popular place to visit because many of the people here have a cultural connection or relatives there. Trips and tours are advertised all the time in the newspaper and on TV. Trips to Japan are frequently offered as prizes in contests too. I can think of a couple of colleagues who have visited Japan for their vacation just recently. But having said that while living in Tokyo I wondered who would want to visit this vastly unattractive city. I once gave directions to some hapless tourists wandering around Tameike-sanno, a major city center which is dominated by a massive, noisy (and incredibly ugly) concrete flyover.
I think it would be very hard for people to travel around Japan without knowing any Japanese unless they were seasoned, confident travellers. At least in Europe you can read the signs and the place names but in Japan most of the time you are out of luck.
Personally I would not choose to visit Japan purely to tour around. I didn't even tour around that much when I was living there. It was far cheaper and more pleasant for me to go abroad.
Sherri |
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furiousmilksheikali

Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| dove wrote: |
The JNTO tourist information center in Tokyo (near the International Forum) is the best tourist office I have ever been to, in any country. They have information on any aspect of Japan you could ever think of. If you want to try tea ceremony, they have a pamphlet on it. If you want to visit a flea market, they have info on it. If you are interested in taking night buses, they have a brochure. Such helpful information, but relatively few takers.
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Yes, the one in Osaka is like this too. Excellent service, but they are shoehorned into a dark little corner under a bridge outside JR Osaka station. But the tourist information centres are there for those who have already decided to come and it is these people who the Japanese government seems completely indifferent to.
By the way, it is sometimes said that Japan is too expensive to go to. That maybe so for those on the backpacking route as Tokyo prices would be a shock to the system for anyone coming up from Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur, but it's certainly no more expensive than most places in Europe. As was said on another thread, prices have barely risen in the last ten years. Compare that to prices in London!  |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| If you take away a tourist industry from some place like Hawaii, or Fiji, or the Philippines, you've just destroyed its economy. |
Actually in Hawaii, tourism as a major part of the economy has declined, being some 25% now.
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| Personally I would not choose to visit Japan purely to tour around. I didn't even tour around that much when I was living there. It was far cheaper and more pleasant for me to go abroad. |
I know the feeling, though my wife and I like some short trips here as I know once I leave here, short of visiting my wife's family or coming here on business, I would have very little reason to come here with places just as nice but far less expensive and more accessible spread around the globe outside this country.
| Quote: |
But I think that japanman in his comment, exemplified quite perfectly the mindset of many Japanese people.... Which is exactly what prevents Japan from becoming a first-tier tourist destination -- the general attitude that people who come here should somehow adapt to Japanese language and culture. Yes, there's good tourists and there's rude ones, but as furious pointed out, no one's going to feel very welcome in Japan unless they learn what the hell "Yokoso" means -- and let's face it, most tourists, be they rude or polite, will not bother to do so just so they can take a vacation.
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Exactly, and this extends to living here. And when you do it, wait, you're not Japanese! Welcoming indeed!  |
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king kakipi
Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 353 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Jared W; as a Scot I really can't this one slip through to the keeper:-
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| When people choose England, it's Big Ben, Parliament, and the castles in Scotland. |
There are no "castles in Scotland" in 'England'. Jeez, no wonder I had problems in Japan teaching the natives that I was NOT "Igirisujin" but "Skotterandojin" if the gaijin can't even get it right...........  |
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Nismo

Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 520
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| king kakipi wrote: |
There are no "castles in Scotland" in 'England'. Jeez, no wonder I had problems in Japan teaching the natives that I was NOT "Igirisujin" but "Skotterandojin" if the gaijin can't even get it right...........  |
There is a significant amount of Japanese high school students who don't know the difference between Ireland and Iceland. |
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matador

Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 281
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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There are some AWESOME places in Japan...hidden bars with great microbreweries, amazing outdoor onsen halfway up a mountain where you can relax in hot waters with the snow around you and vistas of the ocean...deep forests seemingly trapped in a 1950s time warp..(insert your own experiences here).
....but these are never heard of outside of Japan. People think Japan = high cost, high tech and crowded. |
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furiousmilksheikali

Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| matador wrote: |
There are some AWESOME places in Japan...hidden bars with great microbreweries, amazing outdoor onsen halfway up a mountain where you can relax in hot waters with the snow around you and vistas of the ocean...deep forests seemingly trapped in a 1950s time warp..(insert your own experiences here).
....but these are never heard of outside of Japan. People think Japan = high cost, high tech and crowded. |
I completely agree. It is either a great shame or a great secret that is best left to us. |
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Perpetual Traveller

Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 651 Location: In the Kak, Japan
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Nismo wrote: |
| seanmcginty wrote: |
| I love Japan, but I have to admit that it is an ugly country. The cities are grey and crowded, most of the traditional architecture has been obliterated and the natural beauty has been submersed in concrete. |
So is LA. And New York. And Seoul. Actually, you've just described any major city in the world. |
I don't think that's necessarily fair, a city can be beautiful, what about Vancouver, San Francisco, Melbourne, Paris? To name just a few cities that aren't simply concrete jungles...
PT |
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nomadder

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 709 Location: Somewherebetweenhereandthere
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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It's probably not promoted because they know they don't have the English ability or courage to deal with the tourists. It's bad enough they have to deal with English teachers running rampant through their land. Basically it's come at your own risk. Your best bet is Kyoto tourist info and random people in Tokyo. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| There are some AWESOME places in Japan...hidden bars with great microbreweries, amazing outdoor onsen halfway up a mountain where you can relax in hot waters with the snow around you and vistas of the ocean...deep forests seemingly trapped in a 1950s time warp..(insert your own experiences here). |
Strangely though, I can find these places elsewhere. The deep forests must not have been Kamikochi. Yes, I have been to some nice places in Japan, but usually they are difficult to get to, and here that means dropping some dough. then again, Australia is similar, just with more wide open bits. |
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JaredW

Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 105 Location: teaching high school in Sacramento, CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| king kakipi wrote: |
Sorry Jared W; as a Scot I really can't this one slip through to the keeper:-
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| When people choose England, it's Big Ben, Parliament, and the castles in Scotland. |
There are no "castles in Scotland" in 'England'. Jeez, no wonder I had problems in Japan teaching the natives that I was NOT "Igirisujin" but "Skotterandojin" if the gaijin can't even get it right...........  |
Sorry. Sometimes I can be a dumb America. And, my maternal grandmother's side was Scottish also. The clan's name was Ethington or Etherington (sp?) |
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