Job Discussion Forums

[Littlebird]

Could someone please advise me about this contract.

HK$14,000 per month salary. Compared with the figures other people are talking about this seems poor however accommodation is included supposedly. If they renege on their promise can I afford accommodation on this salary ? Can I do anything about them reneging on their promise ?
HK$2,500 per month utilities I pay out of the above pay.
14 days holiday per year no mention of public holidays
A minimum of 30 hours per week between the hours of 9 am and 9 pm. Does that mean they can expect me to work any number of hours ?
'The company is under no short term or continuing obligation to provide the teacher with accommodation but may provide it at its discretion. That seems to make it wide open that they do NOT have to provide me with accommodation. The contract then goes on to say that the Company may require to leave the accomodation at any time.'

The teacher shall always attend and participate in meetings, open days, parents days. Is this likely to be in addition to the 30 hours ?

I am not allowed to work as a teacher somewhere else in HK if the agreement is terminated on either side; I must work in a non competing company or a different geographic region.

The worse clause is this: 'The company reserves the right to vary any of the terms and conditions of the teacher's employment ( and then lists everything: hours, duties, pay, holiday, and accomodation).

It seems to me that with this contract seems the company can ask me to do anything for any amount of time for any amount of money and not provide me with accomodation. Is this correct ? I have been promised in several emails and phone calls accomodation apparently with all mod cons, a set pay and holidays, a set number of hours - they said 30 to 36 per month AND this was on the website but I want this information in the contract. As soon as started to question the contract I was told maybe I should not come as the life style may be too alien to me.

Could someone also tell me what happens if I leave or get sacked is my VISA automatically made invalid. Do I have to get out of the country immediately ? Could I go to China and get another VISA to work in HK and work teaching English by the hour ? Are VISAs job specific ? Where can I find out for sure about these things before I go ? Could someone give me the address and phone number of the HK consulate if that is the right place to contact ?

With this contract I seem to have no rights at all. Please advise. Thank you.

Also please can I have the web address for the NET scheme and any other addresses for teaching jobs in HK - I rarely come across any !

Thanks again.

[chinagirl]

If you don't seem comfortable with the terms of your contract, my suggestion would be to follow your gut. Vague contracts will not protect your rights as an employee. I wouldn't sign it. Wait for something better. You are right to ask for the terms of your contract to be clearly stated. They may be unhappy if you don't sign, but you may be even unhappier if you do!

Good luck!

[prplfairy]

Dear Littlebird,

That contract is garbage. I'm sure by reading this forum and the Job Info Journal you can see how many shady companies there are out there. When they tell you that they will take care of you and then don't put it in the contract expect to get screwed. I'm not even sure if it is legal to change a employees salary without at least an amendment to the contract, if not a whole new contract. Believe me you don't want to go through any labour diputes as it takes months of relentless fighting and waiting with no guanentee that you'll get the cash. To be honest $14,000 is way to low for a job that asks that much. Most learning centers pay over $20,000 if you have a degree and a little experience. Kindergartens pay less but still you shouldn't be asked to work 30+ hours and until 9pm for less than $15,000. And it probably includes Saturdays. Also don't trust this housing bit. It is probably out in the sticks and a hellish commute. I would wait-if you are qualified then you can find something much better. Also, now is a bit of a dead time of year for jobs. Around Chinese New Year things pick up alot. If you need info you should contact the HK Immigration and Labour departments. It sounds as if you are not in HK at the moment which is also an issue as fewer employers are willing to hire anyone without meeting him or her. By the way which company is it?
The net scheme website is www.netscheme.org.hk

[Roger]

Your description of the contractual stipulations reminds me of a training centre, which might loan you to other schools, but this is not common in HK (and, I suppose, illegal). The pay and working time are indicative of a kindergarten position. Kindergartens normally provide housing. Please, correct me if I am misinformed.
But it's a dangerous deal. 2500 for utilities is high! How did they calculate this? Your salary is somewhere near standard (for kindergartens), and 2 weeks ofpaid holidays go with that kind of job. You then should think seriously about housing. If that's at your expense, somewhere near half of your monthly pay goes for that! That's not fair.

Reneging on contracts happens, but you can take them to a labour dispute tribunal, although as someone pointed out that's going to be time-consuming.
I would say the current flat economy allows many employers to get away with bad offers, and still recruit folks. Exercise caution. If they reply stand-offishly, ignore them. It means that once in that job you would really have to stand a lot more nonsense as they are used to lording it over meek, submissive yes-people.

Last question: Visa validity...
I suppose your visa would not expire, but I don't know what options you have except to use it as a tourist visa. Forget about freelancing - illegal! and, they do come down very hard on those in breach of the law!
Go to the mainland? Your visa is not valid there, so you would need a mainland visa just to enter it. Your best bet is working there - albeit for signifcantly less than HK$ 14'000.

[once again]

I am with every one else on this..do not accept this contract. I am not even sure it is legal as there are so many caveats and exceptions I would think it wouldn't stand up in court. As Roger pointed out about the utility fees, they are way too high. For gas, electricity, phone and water, the maximum I have ever paid is around 1,600 and that is with the air con running almost 16 hours a day in the summer months. If they take this out every month they are making a lot of money on it.the only way they can possibly get that high is if mangment fees and rates are involved..but given that you will probably be in a very small flat, sharing and in really bad location, they should be almost nothing anyway. It would be kind of you to post the company name so that we can avoid them!

[Littlebird]

Thanks a lot for your very prompt and honest replies.

The thing is I thought the contract was a load of rubbish but having read all the posts on this forum I pretty much expect to be shafted at least a bit. I have two degrees but no experience whatsoever they have actually asked me to make up some for the immigration forms as otherwise 'I don't stand a chance of getting in'. They also say they have employed other people with degrees and no teaching experience. I thought I would not be able to get anything else as I don't have a teaching cert or experience AND more importantly there are hardly any vacancies in HK !! I been put off Korea because of the extremes of weather and the possibility of no air-con or heating lots of people have told me this - totally unacceptable to me.

Do I understand that other people get proper contracts then with everything included: accommodation- amenities listed, salary, number of hours, holidays including public ones and no ridiculous caveats like the company reserves the right to vary any of the terms above (everything) ? Is that the norm ? For your information the company is a private language company where kids of ALL ages come and attend one hour lessons in class sizes of 4 where the lessons start at 9 and finish I was told at 7 pm. The house which in on the website looks very nice from the outside anyway and is very large. It is 1 1/2 hours away (in Sang Ko on Clearwater Bay) from all three centres I was told it is a big city what do I expect ?! Don't you lot travel long distance to work ?

The other thing someone mentioned was - am I in the UK - yes I am. You say the better companies want to interview people first in person how can they do that you can't go all the way to HK just for an interview and I read in the Lonely Planet Guide (perhaps it is wrong) that it is impossible to get a work VISA once out there.

I would like to phone Immigration in HK to find out the facts for sure but apart from the massive time difference would they understand English - the Chinese Consulate in London did not understand me.

I'm not looking to make a career out of this to be honest I just want to earn some money and have an adventure !

Thanks for you help.

[Littlebird]

Thanks a lot for your very prompt and honest replies.

The thing is I thought the contract was a load of rubbish but having read all the posts on this forum I pretty much expect to be shafted at least a bit. I have two degrees but no experience whatsoever they have actually asked me to make up some for the immigration forms as otherwise 'I don't stand a chance of getting in'. They also say they have employed other people with degrees and no teaching experience. I thought I would not be able to get anything else as I don't have a teaching cert or experience AND more importantly there are hardly any vacancies in HK !! I been put off Korea because of the extremes of weather and the possibility of no air-con or heating lots of people have told me this - totally unacceptable to me.

Do I understand that other people get proper contracts then with everything included: accommodation- amenities listed, salary, number of hours, holidays including public ones and no ridiculous caveats like the company reserves the right to vary any of the terms above (everything) ? Is that the norm ? For your information the company is a private language company where kids of ALL ages come and attend one hour lessons in class sizes of 4 where the lessons start at 9 and finish I was told at 7 pm. The house which in on the website looks very nice from the outside anyway and is very large. It is 1 1/2 hours away (in Sang Ko on Clearwater Bay) from all three centres I was told it is a big city what do I expect ?! Don't you lot travel long distance to work ?

The other thing someone mentioned was - am I in the UK - yes I am. You say the better companies want to interview people first in person how can they do that you can't go all the way to HK just for an interview and I read in the Lonely Planet Guide (perhaps it is wrong) that it is impossible to get a work VISA once out there.

I would like to phone Immigration in HK to find out the facts for sure but apart from the massive time difference would they understand English - the Chinese Consulate in London did not understand me.

I'm not looking to make a career out of this to be honest I just want to earn some money and have an adventure !

Thanks for you help.

[Littlebird]

I forgot to ask if I do this job and the worst happens and I leave can I stay in HK and look for another job. Are VISA's non-job specific ? If they are job specific can you get another job without leaving the country and get another VISA for that job hopefully with a decent contract.

Would I be able to get another teaching job in HK with accommodation without a teaching cert and experience ? Is this the norm or do people have to find their own accommodation ? Does anyone know a website with this legal information on please ?

Thanks again

[ChrisRose]

The worse clause is this: 'The company reserves the right to vary any of the terms and conditions of the teacher's employment ( and then lists everything: hours, duties, pay, holiday, and accomodation).

That clause must be removed. If not it is not a contract as such. Just cross it out and both parties initial it. If they have the right to change any of the conditions at thier discrestion, well you have no protection what-so-ever.[/i]

[AndyinHK]

If the school cancels your contract, your visa becomes invalid. They have a legal obligation to inform the immigration dept. if/when it happens.
Visas are job specific.

[Littlebird]

Thanks both of you.

So if I leave the job and my work VISA becomes invalid do I have to leave the country immediately or can I look around for another job within some prescribed timescale without a work VISA and get another work VISA with my new job ?

[Littlebird]

Thanks both of you.

So if I leave the job and my work VISA becomes invalid do I have to leave the country immediately or can I look around for another job within some prescribed timescale without a work VISA and get another work VISA with my new job ?

[Littlebird]

Thanks both of you.

So if I leave the job and my work VISA becomes invalid do I have to leave the country immediately or can I look around for another job within some prescribed timescale without a work VISA and get another work VISA with my new job ?

[Littlebird]

Thanks both of you.

So if I leave the job and my work VISA becomes invalid do I have to leave the country immediately or can I look around for another job within some prescribed timescale without a work VISA and get another work VISA with my new job ?

[AndyinHK]

I am not sure if you need to leave immediately. There is a forum on geoexpat.com that answers immigration type questions. Emigra, an immigration consultancy can answer your question on that board. I do know that the immigration department does not like it very much if you switch employers within a year.

Good luck.