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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
Thanks for that.
So if "stay" is a verb in the infinitive, what is the "is".......I thought this must be classified as a verb. But one of the rules etched on my brain is SVO.....never heard of SVVO  |
It's always the same, isn't it? You give an inch, they take a mile. Ok, I'll walk an extra mile.
Look again at your example sentence.
All I have to do is stay.
have = verb
do = verb
is = verb
stay =verb
in this example, is is the controlling verb and the others are secondary or supporting verbs. Do not confuse them with auxilliary verbs which are different again.
SVO is true only for the most basic forms of English sentences.
ie: Romeo loves Juliet.
Sentences with multiple verbs are common and variations on the order of SVO are common as well.
ie: Juliet is loved by Romeo. The best whisky is made in Scotland. The prettiest sheep are shagged in Wales. Many cars are made in Detroit.
After 20 years of ploughing through course books, you too will be able to spout all this. However, if any Newbies read this thread do not stand in front of a class and preach this to your students. This is commissioned ranks only material!
Now, I'm full of shorchu and I'm going to bed.
Oyasuminasai! |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Those of you getting upset & arguing over all this need to remember one word: Wittgenstein.   |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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sid,
That pattern does follow SVO.
All = S
is = V
(to) stay = O
You do remember that infinitives can be used as nouns (i.e., objects or verb complements)...? |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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In fact, Jonny is correct in saying that the bare infinitive differs from a verb in the present tense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinitive
My membership of the grammarian society has been cancelled. |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
sid,
That pattern does follow SVO.
All = S
is = V
(to) stay = O
You do remember that infinitives can be used as nouns (i.e., objects or verb complements)...? |
This is almost but not quite right. It's a good effort though!
All I have to do = subject clause
is = main or controlling verb
stay = infinitive as object
| Quote: |
| In fact, Jonny is correct in saying that the bare infinitive differs from a verb in the present tense. |
Well, that's very sporting of you Old Chap. I was so impressed by your big-hearted gesture that I contacted the nice people at the Grammarian Society on your behalf. They were very kind about it and insisted that your membership is still valid. No need for grammatical sepuku just yet! |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Hmm...all I want to say is going...pear-shaped...going...going...gone. |
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zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Or instead of calling 'is' the main or controlling verb, it is also known as the main finite verb within this sentence. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
This is almost but not quite right. It's a good effort though!
All I have to do = subject clause
is = main or controlling verb
stay = infinitive as object |
Never heard of a "controlling" verb, but jonny has most completely expanded and expounded on my more abbreviated (and still correct) explanation. |
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zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't 'I' the head of the noun phrase and so therefore more a subject than 'All'?
Where is Stephen Jones when you need him? |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| zorro (3) wrote: |
| Or instead of calling 'is' the main or controlling verb, it is also known as the main finite verb within this sentence. |
Agreed and thank you. In fact, that would have been a much better way for me to have expressed it because finite would have drawn a neat parallel with infinitive but I missed it owing to the lateness of the hour and the effects of the shorchu. I'm obliged to you.
Glenski said:
| Quote: |
| Never heard of a "controlling" verb |
Mate, more than half of the so called teachers on this board have never heard of a verb of any description!
Anyway, I'm just about through with this thread. I've said all I want to and I stand by every word of it. The OP's question has been answered fully and I don't propose to hang around for the post- match bickering.
Let's have another grammar question to chew over. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Interestingly, Leech et al (in their English Grammar for Today: A New Introduction (Second Edition)) have opted to change their terminology from 'finite' to simply 'tensed' (make of that what you will - not sure it is entirely the right move myself). |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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sorry to keep this one going. My student just this second has asked me if this is correct:
All I have to do is to stay
I said it was but that it was far more authentic to omit the to.
But now I am having second thoughts.  |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Sid,
It's in this thread, Mate.
A bare infinitive is an ifinitive without to.
Just read the thread again and I'm sure you'll spot it.
All I have to do is stay. Is right for the reasons already outlined.
By the way, why is your student banging on about this one sentence all the time?
I'd move him on to something more communicative if I were you. Just a thought. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| By the way, why is your student banging on about this one sentence all the time? |
Well, as if the answer were not obvious, students here in Japan develop these pathological fixations because their textbooks trade in a strictly limited number of examples, and then set what seems to be as many of them off against each other as possible, as if the supposed differences in grammar/structure will be all that students need in order to understand English; but the examples are seldom natural or striking (in a word, useful) enough for the point(s) they are meant to be illustrating to really sink home. |
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JonnyB61
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 216
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
Well, as if the answer were not obvious, students here in Japan develop these pathological fixations because their textbooks trade in a strictly limited number of examples |
It wasn't obvious to me or I wouldn't have asked the question.
I work for myself teaching inhouse to large corporations: Suntory, Nissan, Toyota and a couple of hotels. Consequently, I get to choose the materials myself , or sometimes the students bring things they want to discuss.
I really don't know what happens in other people's experiences, except what I read on here. Thanks for answering the question though. |
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