Job Discussion Forums

[gaijinalways]

[madison01]

I do intend on replying to Justin's questions and other comeents on this post but am verrrrry busy at the mo, I also want to post some observations of my own but want to get them right.

Hope you don't mind

[madison01]

This is going to be quite a long one, sorry.

Okay, I�ve had time to think about John and Justin�s comments and questions and think I can answer them.

Firstly, my background in EFL when I finished my English degree before that I finished a Business and Finance degree and worked in marketing then business management, my father owned his own business and I worked for him whilst studying, this is where I get most of my experience and understanding.

Secondly, I know nothing about South American EFL markets so can�t comment on your specific situations without knowing whether the market is emerging at the moment or has been up and running for some time, or reaching saturation point, any one of which would dramatically alter a pricing policy.

The way I have had to work in the past in all the businesses I have worked in is based on two key areas. 1. Profit Margins 2. Supply and Demand. Both of which will affect how something is priced in terms of its profit margins.

In the countries I have worked in the competition is high, supply either fulfils demand or outstrips it. This means your prices are vitally important. In countries where supply does not meet demand, prices can be higher and reputation is as important as price. I�m afraid your analogy of Jaguar and Honda is slightly out here Justin, Jaguar competed in a market with lower demand than Honda and it was its reputation that nearly killed it (Jaguar attempted to improve the profit margin and keep the prices high, never a good idea). Also, Wal-Mart supplies to a market of high demand therefore its prices have to be lower to compete with others selling to that market.

Like any business with competitors client turnover is inevitable, and reducing that number is extremely important, and reputation, word-of-mouth is the big daddy of marketing tools. Every school I have worked for wants a good reputation, but what is a good reputation in market of 100 schools for instance?

Most schools take the �nobody�s complaining all must be well� approach, rushing to fix a problem when it comes up rather than avoid the problem. I�m all for providing an excellent quality service and have worked at a school which aimed for and achieved that, however, the owner was also the DoS, a teacher, web designer and his profit margin was his salary, plus a bit more to protect its future. His salaries were high as were his standards, all teachers were DELTA minimum and had 3 years experience.

But, and it�s a big but, most school owner couldn�t hold a board marker the right way up, let alone walk into a room of 12 teenagers and teach them the 3rd conditional. Their motivation is entirely different, and in markets where competition is tight their viewpoint on what a good reputation is, is entirely different.

What is the alternative? Well, you seem to be in a very good position Justin, if profit is not the motive then the margins can be altered to suit delivery of a quality product.

There is no alternative under the current climate, in my opinion. The only thing that can�t reduce competition to a less damaging level is global standards and a clear measurable progression. There are so many schools selling so many kinds of products with no minimum standard to adhere to. And before anybody starts banging on about the BC, IATEFL, PASE or any other local body that purports to control standards at schools, please don�t. Everyone of them requires an payment to join and remain a member, everyone of them doesn�t fully enforce their criteria or set the benchmark too high because the number of schools wanting to be accredited would be drastically lower. Until there is an independent, non-financially dependent body accrediting standards across the board there will be no minimum standard. With no minimum standard any Tom, Dick or Harry can open up, use anybody to teach and drive down prices, which forces better schools to do so. The higher the number of schools the more likely you are to end up being paid less as a teacher.

I think I�ve covered everything.

It was a long one, Very sorry.

[John Hall]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Demand outstrips supply quite clearly here in the Russian Far East, at least for the time being. This is why I'm trying to take advantage of the market as quickly and effectively as possible.

This is a market where foreign investment is currently tenuous (at best) and--with the EFL industry--new. The first, obviously, seems detrimental to EFL professionals, but the second--coupled with many Russians' desires to immigrate--give me substantial hope.

Being a new market, there are very few qualified native teachers here (you can count them on one hand). As one such teacher, I can tell you that the students are acutely aware of the quality of their education, and do not put up with sub-standard English teaching (or any teaching--for long at least). Also, most students could care less if their teacher is white/black, short/tall, blonde/auburn, as long as they learn English. Perhaps these points have to do with Russia's strong educational expectations and its geographic and cultural proximity to the West.

I know a few students who have ceased coming to my school because they weren't given classes with teachers they deemed "good". Part of this may have been a bias against my non-native colleagues, but mostly it was because they expected a good product for the substantial money they'd spent. Management is well aware of this, and compensate the most effective teachers accordingly--while, of course, making a profit. (Of course, I'm not making millions, but I make more than twice as much as I've ever made in my seven years in the industry, and have enough for a flat, travel and creature comforts.)

I see several scenarios for the future of the EFL industry here in the RFE, and only one-- a government crackdown of some sort-- seems bleak to me. To reiterate, customers here simply won't settle for low-quality instruction; they also are willing to pay a good deal for high-quality teaching.

Therefore, if you have a market where many customers have substantial disposable income, and demand outstrips supply (yet cost of living is comparatively low), you have a win-win situation for both the school and the teacher.

All of this is perhaps distinct from the situation in S. Korea and China, where the looks of the teacher often = the quality of the perceived education. It is places like those, IMO, where the "fly-by-nighters" who look "right" will always offer a cheap alternative to high-quality EFL instruction. Which means, of course, that school owners can (and will) pay their teachers far less. And why not?: Expectations might be far lower.
In more "discriminating" markets (pardon the pun), however, I don't see this as the case; the RFE, IMO, is one such place.

Just my $.02. Sorry for the long post for anyone who's made it this far!

[waxwing]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Interesting to hear from you out there.

Thanks!

About foreign investment, what is the situation with regard to the Chinese in Vladivostok?

Well, generally, Russians here dispise the Chinese. I'm not sure if that's news, though! In terms of foreign investment, however, Chinese nationals have a great deal of small-business and labor-placement "concerns" here in Vladivostok.

Obviously there has been a heavy far east influence for some while, i.e. Japanese, Korean and Chinese. But how is the new resurgence of China affecting the situation?

"China" is everywhere here in Vlad. There're great numbers of Chinese nationals doing a great deal of labor (and, curiously, fixing shoes). Most of the goods available (at least the goods you don't have to pay out of your nose for) are Chinese. This might have to do with the fact that Russia produces very little, however. Chinese interests are much more apparent than S. Korean and Japanese, IMO.

And how are Putin's policies about foreign workers affecting the situation?

Interesting question. Of course, when one goes to the "Chinese markets" and now--amazingly, as if appearing from the vapor--most of the sellers are semi- or full-blown babushkas (where they were once Chinese nationals), one can see the change. However, Chinese interests still own the kiosks in question (or so I've been told). This seems to be true for Caucasian and Middle Asian concerns as well.

Is there much racial tension?

There is racial tension, indeed; but, as far as I can tell, it's mostly one-sided: Russians have a vehement disdain for Chinese people. IMO, Russians dislike the Chinese for a few reasons: 1) Chinese nationals are hard workers; 2) They work for lower wages; 3) They produce inferior-quality goods (ironically, Russians line up to buy said goods, or take mini-vacations for cheap shopping in Sufenhei); and 4) A whole host of culturally ignorant, xenophobic and racist reasons. That being said, I think Russian/Chinese violence is rare (don't quote me).

I have a certain interest in the area from having worked both in Russia and Harbin.

You probably know there is quite a flood of young Russians from the Dalnii Vostok trying to find work, study and generally make a life for themselves by heading south. Are you finding a lot of students are switching to learning Chinese rather than English?

I don't know about switching, but a good number of my students learn English and Chinese (or Japanese). And, yes, you are right, I know of a number of students who are heading to Shanghai and Beijing (and Seoul for that matter) to study.

[waxwing]

Yes, the traditional perception of the Chinese by Russians is "khitrii" (cunning), they have a mistrust of them. I guess it's a bit like our old idea of them being "inscrutable".

It's very telling crossing the border on the Trans-Manchurian at (Manzhouli? I think that's the name). The difference between the sense of decay and neglect on the Russian side, and the order and industry on the Chinese side - as well as population density!

Suifenhe: got to be one of the strangest places on Earth. I enjoyed confusing the Chinese store owners (all of whom speak fluent-ish Russian) by chatting with them in Russian and then telling them I was from England. They'd never seen a white person who wasn't Russian

As to learning both English and Chinese, I can see the appeal, but I don't envy them trying it! Tall order! Although in Harbin I met one or two young Russians who had achieved this, some of them taught English, and well (EFL teachers make the sign of the cross at this point )

Anyway, if you can speak English, Chinese, Russian, and one Romance language (let's say Spanish) you're pretty much covered everywhere in the world (with the possible exception of Arabia..).

Do you think the Dalnii Vostok (Russian Far East) is going to "become" Chinese, in any sense? I think it will happen by stealth irrespective of Moscow's edicts, personally. Over many, many years of course.


PS What is a semi-babushka? Does such an exotic creature really exist?

[jpvanderwerf2001]