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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I was familiar with the Japan poker scene, but never had a chance to press the felt with them in Tokyo. They do a big New Years eve tourney, from what I recall. All for "prizes" of course. 
There a little introduction to Tokyo's live poker scene posted to YouTube, take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5rdovCjmVY
Zorro, I don't know how you'd be able to establish an online Dave's poker room. It's a huge technological and legal undertaking, but I suppose you could all agree to meet at one of the existing online venues at a designated time, Pokerstars or FullTilt are among the best. But you'd have to contend with the stream of unwanted guests constantly crashing your party when seats become free.
I'm with Southofreality on the issue of online poker. Great place to learn for free, but when I lay down real cash, I want to do it in a real, live setting, where I've enjoyed regular success in the past. My brief experiments with online cash poker have failed miserably, partly because I'm pretty good at the psychological aspect of the game and picking up tells.
I did however win my satellite to the $10,000 World Series ME! See you in Vegas in a few weeks!  |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Online cash games are good for grinders who want to make a part-time income at the lower-limit tables. It just takes a lot of time, and I'm too busy with other things to do that anymore. In a way, I'm glad there aren't casinos or card rooms where gambling is permitted in Japan; I'd probably fall back into the same poker routine I was in back home. However, I've heard some talk about a casino or two coming to the Kanto area. I'm sure it's just talk at this point, though. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| southofreality wrote: |
| Online cash games are good for grinders who want to make a part-time income at the lower-limit tables. It just takes a lot of time, and I'm too busy with other things to do that anymore. In a way, I'm glad there aren't casinos or card rooms where gambling is permitted in Japan; I'd probably fall back into the same poker routine I was in back home. However, I've heard some talk about a casino or two coming to the Kanto area. I'm sure it's just talk at this point, though. |
The closest live casino poker is over in the legal casinos of Korea, there's a nice one in Pusan at a very attractive beach resort (been years since I was there, name escapes me), so might be fun to work it into your plans if you take a holiday over.
I know a few online grinders, and there's absolutely nothing honourable, redeeming or romantic about the "profession" (and they're the first to admit it) - and the low limit grind is hardly worth the time and patience required, in my opinion.
I like a live tournament if I have a free weekend, the very odd live cash game, but mostly I like drinking beer all night with friends and playing 20$ freezeouts. No one gets hurt, everyone gets drunk, thew winner buys the beer and pizza.
The poker boom is in decline, and in 10 years, you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. The WPT on TV was sort of fun to watch for about a season when it first began, now it just comes off as an over-played marketing ploy. |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| Grinding away on the low stakes tables, how much could you expect to make? $500 or $1000 a month may not be worth it if you live in Japan, but if you could do it and live in Thailand for example it may offer an alternative to teaching. |
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YouHadMeAtASL
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| I grind at low limit tables on Full Tilt. But I do it as a way to relax after a long day of work. I'm not doing it to make any sort of living. I'm a big fan of the friends, beer and poker mix. But I'd also be down to make a night of it at a poker club every once in a while. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
| Grinding away on the low stakes tables, how much could you expect to make? $500 or $1000 a month may not be worth it if you live in Japan, but if you could do it and live in Thailand for example it may offer an alternative to teaching. |
It definately could be done, but it's called a "grind" for a reason. You need to be extremely patient and disciplined (much easier said than done) for long long stretches without seeing much immediate progress. You need a firm understanding of and appreciation for the mathematical reality of variance in poker. At low limit tables, you also have a much higher number of donkeys, which means there's a higher percentage of freaky bad beats, little room for creative play. For me, it's got nothing to do with the money, but the lifestyle. You need to confine yourself behind a computer for long sessions, multi-tabling, getting little exercise or fresh outside air. You also jeopardize your social life, friends, gf. It's a lonely profession. There's no guarantee paycheque, and there's no real sense that your work is contributing in any way to society or your career development. If you can deal with all this, good luck!
Just remember that since the poker boom began, anyone and their dog label themselves an online poker pros. They've bought into the romance and myth. Mostly what they are is unemployed compulsive gamblers with a small fluxuating bankroll. The number of poker players that "make it" to serious career status is about the as the number of little leaguers who make it to the big leagues. You do the math.
But it's a great game, one I enjoy as a recreational pastime, and as you can see, one I enjoy talking about. |
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zorro (3)
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
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I'd have to disagree with you that it is a declining industry. In the UK it is most certainly not. Everyone and anyone plays poker now. There is a new super casino opening in the NW of England, there is a 24 hour card room opening in central England, there is more TV coverage than ever before (I can watch poker 7 nights a week if I want), there are about 6 or 7 different poker magazines on the shelves each month for me to choose from.... I don't think it's declining.
It may be in the US because of the online gambling laws. You guys got hit hard with neteller freezing people's accounts, and being unable to play for real money online.
I too am just a recreational online player. I probably spend about 3-4 hours a week playing sit 'n' gos or MTT freezeout tournies. If there's a juicy freeroll on one of the sites, I'll also play that. I deposited $25 in January and my bankroll is now on $60 after I had withdrawn $50. That is a really poor return if I want to consider myself a pro!!! My roi is about 13%. I play $2 games online. I really am your average Joe when it comes to online poker. I did read somewhere though that only about 15% of people who play online do so at a profit. If you go to www.sharkscope.com and type in your competitors names, you will see that most of them are losers. SO....I'm no pro and will never claim to be, but I do love the game. There's nothing better than getting to the final table in 100 man tournies for the third conscecutive time!!!
With regards to setting up a Dave's game online, it is really easy. It would have to be a ring game though. It can be done in about 2 seconds at poker.com. So if there are enough people interested we could play a .02/.04 $10 table limit ring game.
I love talking about poker too. It's a valve of mine that never really gets released..... |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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TK4Lakers
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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I've got a question for the avid poker players.
Seeing how the WSOP has blown up so big these days, it's interesting how there are no big time Japanese poker players out there. A lot of the players representing asians are from China, Korea, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.
Of course Japan having a law against gambling is one reason. But I also think it's just the way Japanese people naturally are that make them lesser/weaker poker players. For example, the Japanese usually show their emotions through their faces and actions, such as when they make a mistake and admit it (and apologize), or when invited to something and they have to refuse...
having a poker face is essential for the game. Do you think that's why the Japanese aren't so good at this game? |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| TK4Lakers wrote: |
Seeing how the WSOP has blown up so big these days, it's interesting how there are no big time Japanese poker players out there. A lot of the players representing asians are from China, Korea, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.
Of course Japan having a law against gambling is one reason. But I also think it's just the way Japanese people naturally are that make them lesser/weaker poker players. For example, the Japanese usually show their emotions through their faces and actions, such as when they make a mistake and admit it (and apologize), or when invited to something and they have to refuse...
having a poker face is essential for the game. Do you think that's why the Japanese aren't so good at this game? |
Can you be any more racist in your comments? It's unfounded and ludicrous. Race plays no part in poker.  |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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T4,
Actually, there's quite a list of well-known (in Vegas and in Japan) Japanese grinder-type poker pros working in the US, as well as other parts of the world. Standard poker was never popular in Japan until a couple of years ago. Now it's taking hold. I'm not saying that I'm a great player, but I do feel that most of the Japanese players (who take the game seriously) that I've played with are pretty good.
Masaaki Kagawa bought into a $100,000 tourney at the Aussie Millions, fought it out with 17 high-stakes players like Negreanu, Ivey, and Lindgren, and took 3rd. Masa also hit several of the recent European Poker Tour events in Germany. Kagawa is probably Japan's first poker celebrity.
Anyone who just decides that Japanese poker players are weak (for cultural reasons, or whatever) may just lose his or her shirt at an upcoming poker game where one or more Japanese players are present. |
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TK4Lakers
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that name, never heard of him before...
and Canuck you're an idiot.
I was trying to make two points...one, you don't hear much about professional Japanese players making it into the big scene with the likes of Johnny Chan, Scotty+Men Nguyen, Toto, etc.
Also, if you knew anything about poker you'd know that you need a poker face in order to play big and win big. I still think that's where Japanese people would be weak...it's normal in this culture to show it in your face when, for example apologizing for something or asking for a favor. Hell, all my friends and relatives admit they wouldn't be able to hang in a game. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| TK4Lakers wrote: |
Thanks for that name, never heard of him before...
and Canuck you're an idiot.
I was trying to make two points...one, you don't hear much about professional Japanese players making it into the big scene with the likes of Johnny Chan, Scotty+Men Nguyen, Toto, etc.
Also, if you knew anything about poker you'd know that you need a poker face in order to play big and win big. I still think that's where Japanese people would be weak...it's normal in this culture to show it in your face when, for example apologizing for something or asking for a favor. Hell, all my friends and relatives admit they wouldn't be able to hang in a game. |
Honestly, you think race has anything to do with a poker face? |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| southofreality wrote: |
| Actually, there's quite a list of well-known (in Vegas and in Japan) Japanese grinder-type poker pros working in the US... Masaaki Kagawa bought into a $100,000 tourney at the Aussie Millions, fought it out with 17 high-stakes players like Negreanu, Ivey, and Lindgren, and took 3rd. Masa also hit several of the recent European Poker Tour events in Germany. Kagawa is probably Japan's first poker celebrity. |
And didn't Yoshi Nakano beat Tony G at the final table of the Intercontinental Poker Championships? I believe he did. Some of the players he had to get by to get to Tony G included D. Negreanu, Doyle Brunson, Johnny Chan and just every other top pro in the world.
As canuck says, this game has zero to do with race, and everything to do with math skills, reading ability and heart.
And this off the World Series wire... Allan Cunningham has won his fifth WSOP bracelet and became just the fifth player ever to win three bracelets in three consecutive years. This guy is one of the top 3 players in the world, in my opinion. |
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southofreality
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| TK4Lakers wrote: |
Also, if you knew anything about poker you'd know that you need a poker face in order to play big and win big. I still think that's where Japanese people would be weak...it's normal in this culture to show it in your face when, for example apologizing for something or asking for a favor. Hell, all my friends and relatives admit they wouldn't be able to hang in a game. |
Who, in his or her right mind would debate this? It's ridiculous. It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with you on this; Anyone who knows anything about poker, has followed the pro scene, and has a decent amount of experience playing in big games knows that people from different cultures all over the world have entered the professional poker realm and have become successful. To say that Japanese people can't learn how to put on a poker face is definitely racist. And to say people are either born with the ability to put one on or not... that it can't be perfected through practice, shows that maybe you don't know much about poker, yourself.
Anyway, that's all I'll say about the issue of Japanese poker players and cultural handicaps. If you want to debate it further with someone else, go ahead. If you're interested in getting to know more about the poker scene in Japan, you can start here:
http://www.japan-poker.net/ |
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