|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| Your opinion or evidential? My daughter is here purely to learn Mandarin and learn how to socialise with her peer group(s). |
Children of course much learn from peer groups (and good peer groups in kindies should include kids of all age groups (2-6yo)) - especially if they're allowed to associate in child initiated activities - such as free play - activities which are the main core of western kindergarten pedagogic - (here please differentiate between real kindergarten education and places that merely mind children - child minding centers).
However during my long experience of Chinese kindergartens - and this also includes those which are classed as elite institutions - I have noted that free play takes up a very small part of the day (if any at all in some places) - and that children are arranged in class structures according to age where contact with other age groups is very slight (kindergartens in the west are structured with mixed age classes where young learn from old and the older are encouraged to show responsibility for the younger) The natural learning process of play is further restricted in the Chinese kindy by arranging space into age related classroom areas, which are just geared to structured traditional teaching activity (in the west the kind is usually an open area where children are not restricted to classrooms apart from a few structured learning activities, which only take up a minority of a child's time). In the west any structured teacher initiated activity is based around creative project type exercises - art, craft, theatre, story telling, physical exercises/sport, the creation of fun solutions for fun problems, simple food preparation etc etc - in China the kindergarten the child�s time is dominated by a very inflexible teacher initiated structure which as ever is based on the pedagogical method of rote - learning song/dance by memorisation, copying pictures in their exact form with as little deviation as possible, spending incredible amounts of time preparing shows such as children's day where the child has no say on what goes on (in the west a child's meaning is important - here the child has very few rights in the field of simple decision making). I have never seen any cases in a Chinese kindergarten where children are allowed to really freely experiment - they are only allowed to copy. The children also spend a lot of time just watching DVD's/VCD's in child silent passive classrooms that show now sign of any educational/social/cultural energy whatsoever.
The teachers in these institutions also use classroom management methods that would frowned on in the west - no real physical violence but a lot of mental control measures such as - shouting/ body language (scaring a child into submission), symbols of violence (rolled up sheets of newspaper and chopsticks - no real sticks allowed in kindies any more - which are banged against desks to intimidate), shaming (making children look stupid in front of other kids), physically pulling children from one place to another. But when parents are around smiles and kindness are flowing - but we all know this story from our own workplaces.
Amazingly many kids seem happy in this environment, after all it becomes a norm � and Children conform and adapt. But, in it, you see the first signs of educational stress - irritable kids during periods of high activity (showtime at children�s day/spring holiday) - the first signs of learning how to fake paying attention (sleeping at desks) - poor problem solving skills compared to western kids (try to organize a game in the kindy classroom where the kids should be responsible for some very simple organisation) - poor skills of imagination (try finding real kids drawings in a Chinese kindy) - low levels of social awareness (a bag of sweets will cause a riot as the kids all push to get one - even in the richest kindies). I also believe that in this kind of environment the over classed kid starts to build an apathy towards education - especially the non achievers, for which there seems no special or expert help - and therefore it can be no wonder that you guys teaching in other school types meet the kind of pupils you do!!!!!
My wife and I have discussed this matter many times - no way could we send our child to a Chinese kindergarten � and even though it should be a great place to learn the language, and get to know other kids � the influence of teachers and pedagogic method would in our view be so great that the risks are just too high that our child would develop norms and attitudes that would be very alien to the lifestyle we wanted to nurture in our family. With this in mind we will either leave China if we get a kid (I�m firing blanks so far) � or bite the bullet and go international school � if we can find one that suites both our child and our own educational preferences.
By the way � kindergarten time may seem a short period of a Childs life � but during this time they can be influenced in such a way � that these �life� factors will remain with and influence the person throughout their lifetime � the building of character. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| blowinlicks wrote: |
Perdoname, pero usted hablas espanol, no? Hablame en mi correo: deebartok@ yahoo.com. Puedo ayudarse...
DM Dowse
Beijing |
Yes, I just emailed you. Thanks.
| HunanForeignGuy wrote: |
Your Z visa and resident permit should automatically be extended to your husband and to your children. You just need to indicate that on all of the relevant applications where you are asked with whom you are travelling.
There are Spanish available here in China; they come up irregularly but they are hard to fill when they do come up. There is one prominent university in Jilin that comes to mind as well as various schools in other provinces. Your husband will most likely need to have a university degree and I hope that he does as that will gain him access to the university jobs.
As for coming to China on a Romanian or Peruvian passport to teach English, that would complicate your life beyond all complications and cause you to loose many good jobs.
Next, you can pull this entire thing off with just a little difficulty but you will need to check all of the sites that offer jobs for Spanish teachers. Such sites do exist.All the best,HFG |
I've heard that the Z visa would also be extended to my husband and kids, when we have them. As for the Jilin Uni, I have their email. The thing is that my husband neer finished his degree. Also, I'm not Romanian or Peruvian, yet. Just American for now. YOu mentioned that there are sites that has Spanish job offers, do you know of any? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steppenwolf wrote: |
| Has it occurred to you that your Peruvian husband might dislike China? Or the Changchun climate? Or the social life that revolves around meeting fellow English speakers to the detriment of Spanish speakers? |
Nothing's certain in life. He or I might dislike any place we go. Climate? Well, he wants to go to Finland or Sweden, so I think he's prepared for the cold weather. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 546
Location: HangZhou, China
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Foreign child -> Chinese kindy? Spanish? Changchun? |
|
|
| colonel wrote: |
P.S.
| Steppenwolf wrote: |
I think a western child should not be put through a Chinese kindergarten; if you want to do your child a favour and benefit from local Mandarin instruction, enrol him or her at a primary school for one year. One year is enough!
|
Your opinion or evidential? My daughter is here purely to learn Mandarin and learn how to socialise with her peer group(s). She's attending an excellent, well resourced kindergarden which is as good as I've seen in the West and; better than anything local to me in Thailand, where safety issues are not on the agenda. The O.P. asked a subjective question and for you to answer in the above manner is not constructive. |
A bit harsh on Steppenwolf perhaps, who was just giving his opinion, based on his/her own experiences. The OP may gain some useful new ideas from hearing such diverse perspectives...
Hmmm, diverse perspectives... something that may quite likely be missing from ordinary Chinese (pre/primary)schooling by the way.
I think vikuk's experience in a range of early childhood settings in China is quite telling.
Perhaps colonel has found a happy (perhaps expensive) exception?
I recall Naturegirl asking about Spanish teaching positions on her husband's behalf a year or so ago, so they are definitely taking their time, and presumably considering all the issues.
Regarding, Spanish teaching, one other thing is that having no Chinese a teacher from, say, Spain or Mexico, might use English as an explanatory intermediate language on some occasions... I don't know if that is something the hiring schools will hold against your husband if his English really is still at an extremely low level... But then, I'm sure it's improved a lot since you first raised this idea here a year or so ago???
Good luck to you both.
By the way, I'm an Aussie, from Brizvegas (i.e. Brisbane) and I quite liked Changchun. It's certainly in an industrial part of China, but the city lifestyle is pretty vibrant and modern. With a sociable community of foreign teachers.
Also, a rarity in China, I loved the frequent crystal clear blue skies in Spring and Summer, in particular, thanks to a weekly air cleansing shower, and/or suitably directed prevailing breeze. Winter is often quite overcast.
I lived there 8 months, May 2004 through Feb 2005. That is, late spring-summer, through autumn and winter. If I can survive the negative 10 - 30 degrees Celcius winter conditions, anyone can. You rush from your heated accomodation to the air-conditioned taxi, then from the taxi to your office or shops or restaurant. Summer, regularly a generally comfortable, dry-heat of 28-32C maximums.
In winter, depending on your accommodation you'll either be walking around in singlet, shorts and thongs (that's the Australian variety worn on your feet, by the way... but if you want to wear an American 'thong', be my guest...  ), or, if you're apartment is a bit older and not so thermally conservative, you might have to wear a jumper/sweater around the house. It's worth checking in the north of China if the winter heating tab is picked up by the school, or your good selves.
Ciao!
LFA
PS. For the record, I have no rugrats or other offspring of my loins, in China or elsewhere for that matter... that I know of... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Foreign child -> Chinese kindy? Spanish? Changchun? |
|
|
| lf_aristotle69 wrote: |
I recall Naturegirl asking about Spanish teaching positions on her husband's behalf a year or so ago, so they are definitely taking their time, and presumably considering all the issues.
Regarding, Spanish teaching, one other thing is that having no Chinese a teacher from, say, Spain or Mexico, might use English as an explanatory intermediate language on some occasions... I don't know if that is something the hiring schools will hold against your husband if his English really is still at an extremely low level... But then, I'm sure it's improved a lot since you first raised this idea here a year or so ago???Good luck to you both.. |
Thanks a lot. Yes, we are taking time doing research considering that we want to make China our home. His English? Well, we don't practice it at home, although he reads in English, it's needed for his job. And every movie that we watch is in English. So he's learning it passively |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
