Job Discussion Forums

[u24tc]

I'd like to raise a topic for discussion which I believe is job related. It is the basis that individuals who have no degree or teaching experience, simply get hired because of their appearence.

I do not believe this is right. I have seen a plethora of people undertaking a weekend 20-hour TEFL course to just get a certificate saying TEFL and with them automatically thinking they are qualified and able to easily get work in Asia, ie. China.

This is probably true however, they are not qualified.

Please... I am really interested in your views on this matter because it bugs the hell out of me when people get employed who are not as experienced or qualified but based on looks.

[johnchina]

Whilst not condoning the situation, I think you should remember that the demand for native-speaker English teachers here is massive and the supply is limited. That's what it comes down to.

[Shan-Shan]

johnchina is absolutely correct. The FT in many circumstances is but ornamentation, something to use in advertisements and "oral" classes.

Unqualified may perhaps be preferable for some schools: an FT with ideas of its own needs to be untrained before trained in the ways of Mr. Wang and his vision of "English Eddication".

[erinyes]

and the job is just as much about sharing culture as it is about teaching English. when you think about it like that, a few Chinese people think that English speeking culture equals white western culture.

They have only been an international country for the past 20 years. Give them a break.

[u24tc]

Racism also takes place though.
I read in another post of an example when a lady employer said that she would not hire the black man because he would scare the children.

Seems to me.. they want to share culture, but only a specific kind.

[bdawg]

[MikeMick]

Most 'qualified' real teachers would never come to asia an work for the crap money on offer!! Unless they pay good enough salaries to attract good teachers, u are stuck with the likes of me!! Hahahaha

[PAzine]

There's good and bad, IMO.

I met a new co-worker tonight. He just transferred over from another part of China.

In a negative light, I could get away with saying that dude was an English pub-w@nker barely out of his teens.

In another light, I saw this young man who was very excited, bopping around with a big smile on his face.

He asked me for help sending an email to his buddy back home. His buddy was looking to "escape", and my new-coworker was pulling strings to make it happen -- purely on basis of his buddy's "whiteness".

Getting by on looks or whiteness or whatever is one way to look at it, and it's valid. There are a lot of goofballs here who couldn't hack it in a donut shop back home. I probably couldn't.

If you take English teaching seriously, keep in mind that a lot of people don't. I don't (even though I'm damned good at it, and bloody qualified).

I don't begrudge western posers in ESL one bit. Good on them! I hope they have fun!

[therock]

Most teaching jobs are for Oral English. Any white monkey can do this. You do not need a degree or to be a qualified teacher.

If you want better teachers, there needs to be a increase in pay and improvement in working conditions.

[Katja84]

I shouldn't be condoning it, but at the same time I think it's a bit too simple to say that we get the jobs because of our race alone. 99% of the time the white people who make their way to China speak better English than the local Chinese teachers. I have seen qualified Chinese English teachers teach 'eating' with two 't's on the blackboard, and many times they appear to have difficulties holding conversations with foreigners (this may not apply everywhere, but certainly does in much of the interior).

On the other hand, I do think it is essential to know how to teach - that's probably the main problem with foreigners coming to China, but once again let's compare with your average Chinese English teacher. How much teaching methodology have they actually done? I have been told English majors, at least at some universities, do not begin learning about teaching before their third or even fourth year (this is what they told me, but I might have misunderstood - their English wasn't the best). And even in the last two years, they are still mainly just trying to learn the language. Having a qualification isn't everything - most people who come to China do skim through a textbook or two in TEFL, even if they decide not to do a hugely expensive CELTA course, for instance. On average I would say that Chinese English teachers and foreign English teachers do about as good of a job when it comes to the teaching part of it (at least if you take into account the fact that foreign teachers can motivate some students better).

White people in China do have other reasons for expecting employment than simply the colour of their skin - they often have much better English than their Chinese collegues (this may not be the case on the East Coast, but it certainly is out west) and even if they do not have a TESOL certificate, they may not be any worse teachers. If nothing else, they do tend to have experience of a teaching methodology that seems to be a bit more effective than the ones adopted by the Chinese (sorry, I'm just sceptical towards the idea of memorizing a full page of text word by word, as I have been asked to do in learning Chinese in China). All I am saying that a qualification alone doesn't always say very much, especially not in China...

What I do think is outrageous is the special treatment given to foreign teachers, including three times the salary of even the best Chinese English teachers. Foreigners may not need the qualifications a Chinese English teacher would need (a four-year degree that mainly focuses on learning the language anyway) but I definitely think we should be treated equally with the Chinese teachers in terms of employment conditions. If we are to receive a higher salary, this is when we should provide evidence that we are better qualified than the Chinese teachers.

[james s]

And as a better teacher comes along; and as a cheaper comes along; and as a younger teacher comes along, the job of the current staff is put into jeapordy and can be sent packing in the snap of a finger.

It is the game that be. Just do your best.

[Mister Al]

katja84

[vikuk]

Remember that those "special" Chinese teachers, who are popular and have a good reputation, can also generate income. Whether this is through an employer or by going down the old "moonlighting" road (so many of our switched on Chinese counterparts offer "extra services").
A couple of years ago we worked with a young Chinese English teacher who was prepping middle school students - he worked every spare hour known to man - but he reckoned that he pulled back 10,000+RMB/month.

In other fields teachers with special talent also can command wages that compare with ours - an artist acquaintance of my wife recently took on an art teaching position at a run of the mill uni for 5000/month. Of course students will be required to pay extra for his lessons, which will generate a lot of income for his employer.

The Ft is one of those (promised) "special" teachers that can generate extra income - but maybe one day more students and fee paying parents will realise that just looking at a pretty face could be a waste of money.

[bendan]

[brsmith15]

Someone once told me that the best person to teach a third grader is a fourth grader. Youth should only become an issue if the person does a poor job teaching.

Also, the very best engineer I ever knew did not have an engineering degree.

Depends on the person, doesn't it?

On the other side, I worked for a school that hired a mother-son team. The son was 19 with only a h.s. diploma; he was also totally unqualified and went right out to prove it. He also slept with his mother.

Oedipus here we come!