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White face... Your hired! Let's Discuss....
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boubou



Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

therock wrote:
Any white monkey can do this..


I couldn't say better, but may I say, BEWARE............... Cops are more and more on the lookout for unqualified teachers with F or fake Visa's (as in my case) Get a freaking TEFL as a basic...

Now, a dude with a Geography Major is NOT a teacher, so if you ask me between a 20 year old just out of high school and a dude with a geopgrahy major, it doesn't make much of a diffrence.. So don't only point out the people without BA's.

But yeah schools want white monkeys to attract "clients" (ie students) Teacher or not, they'll hire you...
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patsy



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 179
Location: china

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my friends who's a chinese teacher and very qualified told me that the foreigner needs to smile a lot and act really friendly, teaching ability is of no consequence. this was very true at my previous school. maybe some are a little different.
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my take on being able to "do good" in Chinese classrooms (actually, since we're all nitpicking on each other - - it should be "do well". You can be a good teacher or you can teach well - - take your pick).

1. Does a teaching certificate - teacher training - classroom experience help over here in China? It sure couldn't hurt! Especially when it comes to classroom management and controlling the flow of a lesson.

2. Proper textbooks, a pre-determined curriculum, teaching materials (like CDs or tapes with players for example) would be VASTLY helpful, yet most schools (from what I read here) can't be bothered with providing much more than chalk and a chalkboard. If you're in that situation, don't stress out too much, okay? Even the most experienced would have SOME difficulty in that scenario.

3. Lack of preparedness on the teacher's part. This can range from not having ANY materials whether teacher provided or school provided and no sense of goals established both for teacher and students. No syllabus, no course outline, no assessment plans - - nada, nothin', zilch-o. A few talented souls could possibly wing it all semester long with their charm, their guitar, and maybe a book of slang phrases, but I'll bet most would struggle.

4. Lack of support from administration. Why after 20 years (or whatever) of foreign teachers landing on Chinese soil, can schools NOT understand that students treat FTs far differently than their Chinese teachers? When the 52nd FT complains to administration about their inability to get their class(es) under control, why are the FTs still accused of being bad teachers? Would it be so hard to figure out a system that requires head teachers and whomever to actually HELP the FTs? Would it?

You know, my first year here I had not a CLUE about what I was doing. I was the only FT in the senior high department and I was thrown to the wolves without any training or orientation or even a few jovial warnings. I had 50% of my classes with good kids and 50% with rotten ones. I decided early on that I was going to call the shots and I managed to get my own classroom and the kids came to me. I got some audio/visual materials (tape player, TV, DVD player) and also convinced the school we needed some EFL textbooks (I decided on New Interchange). Once I "took charge" (professionally, mind you), things went a lot smoother. But, having teaching experience helped me to decide what I felt needed to be done and how to organize myself and my students a little better.
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vikuk



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. Does a teaching certificate - teacher training - classroom experience help over here in China? It sure couldn't hurt! Especially when it comes to classroom management and controlling the flow of a lesson.

Do people think being a qualified teacher is just about real-time classroom management - its also just as much about reflecting on what's happening in the classroom - why it happens - and being able to relate those happenings to educational theory. Theory which will help you tune and change your practical teaching method to suite in-classroom situations. Being an experienced qualified teacher is being able to plan a long-term teaching future - from a long-term teaching past - upon a foundation of educational knowledge.
Sure the non-qualified can control a classroom - but try and get then to explain what exactly they are doing and why they do it, and what their educational strategy�s are - and answers may start to become a little thin.


Last edited by vikuk on Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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cj750s



Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 701
Location: Donghai Town, Beijng

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does a teaching certificate - teacher training - classroom experience help over here in China?


well a fatter paycheck
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Katja84



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kev7161 wrote:
But, having teaching experience helped me to decide what I felt needed to be done and how to organize myself and my students a little better.


I absolutely agree that teachers will need to know something about theories on language learning and will have needed to study TEFL, but do remember that a formal course is not the only way to do this. I think most of us would be very pleased, in theory, to have a CELTA, or whatever, but not all of us would consider �1000 for a four-week course to be worth the money, especially when you CAN learn most of the things the course would contain on your own. Within a month of teaching in China you will have the same amount of teaching experience as you would have through a CELTA course - and this will actually be country-specific - and it's not like the textbooks needed to study TEFL are hard to come-by. Most likely you will have collegues to discuss teaching with, and otherwise there's always places like Dave's ESL cafe... All that is required is a bit more effort and a bit more initiative on your part.

I know an employer cannot know whether you've done your homework if you have nothing to show for it, but they do know that we speak English and they do know that we do not have significantly less teaching experience/TEFL knowledge than the Chinese teachers who are fully educated. In the end I do see the logic of thinking a white face will do perfectly fine as an English teacher, qualification or not.
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dave_merk



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mydnight wrote:
Quote:
There's a simple way to find out who is a good teacher and who isn't: put them in the classroom and see what happens for a week. If they do good give them a probationary period of teaching under supervision, if they suck fire them. What's so hard to understand about that? Teachers who are good will have staying power and be able to connect with the students while presenting the material. Teachers who are bad will be poorly-prepared and make bad classes. It's educational Darwinism: only the strong survive!


Seems to me you know little about teaching.


Right, Mydnight...and I've only been in China for a short time, too, right?

BTW, I was talking about teaching in the ESL classroom specifically in this case.
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vikuk



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Right, Mydnight...and I've only been in China for a short time, too, right?

BTW, I was talking about teaching in the ESL classroom specifically in this case.

And here we have an educational theory - a good China FT is one that has been in China for a long time.

How many of you guys agree with this?
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dave_merk



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikuk wrote:
Quote:
Right, Mydnight...and I've only been in China for a short time, too, right?

BTW, I was talking about teaching in the ESL classroom specifically in this case.

And here we have an educational theory - a good China FT is one that has been in China for a long time.

How many of you guys agree with this?


Get your facts right: the "I was in China only a short time" has nothing to do with this topic. I was referring to Mydnight's stupidly incorrect observation in another thread that my "lack of time being in this country shines through brilliantly." I never said anything about a good FT being one that has been in China for a long time.

Though, now that I think about it, if I were a school leader I'd rather hire an FT who'd been in China with years and years of experience than some guy with a degree who just got off the plane.
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vikuk



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Though, now that I think about it, if I were a school leader I'd rather hire an FT who'd been in China with years and years of experience than some guy with a degree who just got off the plane.

Depends if that years and years of experience - is matched-up to years and years of swapping teaching jobs. What other teaching arena than the Chinese FT market would see a teacher still being a sought after commodity when they had been through 5 (quiet possibly more) teaching jobs in a five year period � here I�m afraid long-term experience and the good teacher may not add up as logically as they do back home.
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eslstudies



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. There seem to be lots of people forever changing jobs. One year's teaching experience five times doesn't equal five years of teaching experience. Or to rephrase that, some people have taught for five years. Others have taught for one year five times.

Last edited by eslstudies on Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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vikuk



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Experience here doesn't seem to weed the "non-qualified" teaching monkeys out of the market - rather the other way round, it gives them hope and encourages them to stay to the detriment of work conditions for the real qualified pro.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same thing happens back at home all the time.

Owners of restaurants prefer to hire good-looking waitresses. It's about the money.

Chinese prefer their foreign teachers to be white. Schools employ accordingly.

Don't lash out at white people because of the choices of the Chinese employers.
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eslstudies



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Wall of Whiner wrote:


Chinese prefer their foreign teachers to be white. Schools employ accordingly.

Don't lash out at white people because of the choices of the Chinese employers.

I must have missed the "lashing out" part.
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Katja84



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikuk wrote:

Depends if that years and years of experience - is matched-up to years and years of swapping teaching jobs. What other teaching arena than the Chinese FT market would see a teacher still being a sought after commodity when they had been through 5 (quiet possibly more) teaching jobs in a five year period � here I�m afraid long-term experience and the good teacher may not add up as logically as they do back home.


You wouldn't know why they have changed jobs though - after all, many FTs come to China because they are interested in learning as much about the country as possible, so switching cities to see a bit more of it may be a logical choice. It might not at all mean his contract wasn't extended. If someone has done five years in five different places its likely they've had different types of classes/students, too, which adds to the experience. The person who may be most likely to have taught "one year five times" is the person who has been stuck at the same school doing the same classes with similar students.
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