Job Discussion Forums

chinadan · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Location: London, UK

I guess it really bothers me to read some of the comments posted on this board.
First, most of you are NOT teachers. In the main you have an undergrad degree in something, are unable to find a decent paying job in your own country, mainly because an undergrad degree is equal to a high school diploma. So you are off to China, Korea or wherever, teach children English (which when reading most of these postings you know little of anyway) and now you consider yourself an honest to goodness teacher. You complain about salaries, working conditions or anything else that strikes your fancy. Most of you are under 25 and have not only little or no teaching experience but little or no life experience. You coach each other on how to forge documents and how to doctor your CV�s so they �look and read� better.
A friend of mine when seeing those kids with the crotch of their pants hanging down to their knees would say �Get a job, get a life�. Grow up and join the real world.
If you want to teach get a teaching degree and a professional certification. There are so many really good paying jobs in the world but most of them want real teachers. CELTA, DELTA or TEFL are not worth the paper they are printed on. Real schools want more, they want pedagogical technique, they want depth and breadth and a real education degree. If you have that extra 2 years after your degree get the one certification that really works. I went to China, made excellent money (16,000 RMB per month) and now I am in the UK making 42K pounds per year. I don�t have an EU passport but was issued a work permit in 4 days for as long as I want. Why, because I am a certified teacher and that is what most countries and schools are looking for.
I will admit that there are some here on this board who are trying to set the record straight and do give good advice. To them I say cheers, keep it up. For the rest of you complainers, get a job, get a life.
Nuff Said
Exclamation

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Wolf may not be a real teacher, but at least he's learned the value of paragraphs.

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

Troll troll troll yer boat...

basiltherat · Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 952

Dear ChinaDan
While I agree with you on most of your points, it's unfortunate that, imho, the individuals for which you reserve your criticism do not give a 'rat's' what u think. I suggest, for your own sake, that you resist being 'bothered' by this fact of life since it is only going to be detrimental to your own health and well-being.
regards
basil

dreadnought · Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Dontcha just love people who join a forum, immediately determine that they are superior to almost everyone on it, and then decide to post just to inform us of that fact? That shows a level of arrogance that could only be matched by...ooh, let's say...someone telling us how much more money than us they earn or how quickly they can get a work permit because they are so well qualified...

I've got a CELTA, DELTA, and MA. I've worked in seven different countries over the last 11 years. Do I belong to your (clearly quite exclusive) band of people who can consider themselves 'teachers'? Or maybe I'll be damned for being too young (I'm only 33 but I've got some grey hairs!!) or blackballed for possessing one of those four-week certificate thingies (look, it was an honest mistake, I got drunk one weekend, the next thing I new I was on an intensive training course).

Actually, I'm not sure I want to belong to that elite little group. It's strange, but the kind of people I've worked with who were always banging on about how well-qualified they were and how much money they earnt were often the worst teachers. Maybe it was the framed PhD on the desk which obscured their view of the students, or the mental strain of calculating during the lesson how much money they were making per minute that kept them from really concentrating on the lesson. Or maybe the halo was just so bright that they couldn't see when a student wanted their attention.

Really, what kind of response did you expect to your post? That we would all suddenly realise how misguided we've been, flagellate ourselves if we happen to be under 30, scuttle back home and find a job more befitting our ill-gotten (and clearly ill-deserved) qualifications?

I notice that you just joined the forum. Can I make a suggestion? Hang around for a bit, follow some of the threads, chat with some of the people. I think you'll find that we're not constantly moaning and bitching about other countries. There are funny and celebratory threads, and in many of them a genuine love of the profession. Yes, some things do annoy us in other countries, and this is a good place to sound off, but I find it difficult to believe that we are the only people to sometimes feel this way. Several of my friends teach 'proper' in England (and have shiny BEds and everything), but all I ever hear from them is constant complaining about the pay, the job etc. But then, maybe they're not on your salary!!

johnslat · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:33 pm Post subject: On the other hand

Dear shmooj,
Well, maybe you're right - chinadan's posting could be "trollish". However, let's not discount the possibility, perhaps the likelihood, that he is simply a jerk.
Regards,
John
( BA in English, MA in English Education, twenty-eight years teaching experience ).

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

There are so many pointed and eloquent replies that already say what I thought after reading the post. Actually, my initial reaction was WTF?!?!?

Qualifications alone do not a good teacher make. A successful teacher must motivate his/her students, understand them, and care about them. A qualified teacher might know which technique should theoretically work in a given situation, but putting a good lesson into practice is not something that can be learned in books.

What's wrong with being under 25?!?!? EVERYONE was, at some point, under 25. Even you, chinadan.

d

P.S. Here are my vital stats: (can I join the club? can I can I can I?)

BA in Peace and Conflict Studies
TEFL Certificate, which apparently wasn't worth the $1500 or so I spent on it
MATESOL
28 years old
3ish years of teaching, and counting

dreadnought · Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 82 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Ok, let's give him the benefit of the doubt if it was a troll. But what an unimaginative one! Fancy trying to revive the whole 'CELTA is a joke, get a proper degree' argument. That one was played out years ago on this forum, and to actually spend time trying to revive it seems a little pointless. If he really wanted to do that, he could pop over to the Teacher Training Forum where, at least to my knowledge, they've been having that debate for at least the last five years. I occasionally ghost over there to see if the debate has moved on one millimetre, but it never does. Actually, I find it quite comforting in this everchanging world that you can rely on the Teacher Training Forum never to change.

No, I think I'm with johnslat on this one. Possibly a troll, but more likely just a jerk.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Chinadan has just about everything wrong, at least as far as I am concerned, and I am sure, the majority of regular posters. Is he perhaps Mr Bertrand by another name?

Even so (Bertrand had some adfmirable linguistic theoretical knowledge), he lacks what from my point of view is the most important defining quality: Reliable foreign language skills.
Any good language teacher speaks at least two, possibly many more, languages.

chinadan · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Location: London, UK

Wow talk about stirring things up. As they say here"Don't get your knickers in a knot"
The point I was trying to make is that for the few here who give good advice and tell a true story there are about a thousand who do not. Do not under any circumstances believe that because I have only recently joined that I have not been looking for some time. Don�t you just hate the same questions asked all the time with the same answers posted. Yes I taught at some pretty bad schools in China but also at some very good ones. One thing I have no problem with is criticism. But lets make it realistic. I have lived and worked on most continents both as a teacher and a consultant. Retired to teach full time and enjoy the world. I�ve done the 80 hour week, had the ulcers. The point I made about the money was directed at those like I said who are still in school and looking to come to specifically the UK. They won�t accept any qualification here except an education degree. Be that fair or not as far as individual teaching abilities and any other certification you may have the government here only recognizes that one piece of paper. I have a PhD which as far as I am concerned stands for �Piled Higher and Deeper� but I still could not teach here without an education degree. Quit taking these responses personally. I am at least glad to see some stimulating conversation that has come from it. After all isn�t that the real purpose of this forum��..
PS. Is this forum only for English Teachers?

chinadan · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Location: London, UK

Ps My Qualifications
Born on the Canadian Prairies
Father had Grade 8 education
Did some cool things
Did some uncool things
Got Married
Got Divorced
Same again
Got tired of too much work
Got tired of giving away everything I made to ex-wives
No kids
Retired at 45
Finally enjoying life
Still have a sense of Ha Ha
What a kick should have done this sooner!

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

So a DELTA's not worth the paper it's printed on?

Sh*t!

Do you think I could get a refund? My exam's next week Smile

chinadan · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 19 Location: London, UK

Where do you want to teach and what kind of money do you want to make? Do you want adventure or an income. I'm too old not to have the creature comforts, did my share of backpacking and living with the ghecko's.

johnslat · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:21 pm Post subject: Second thoughts

Dear chinadan,
I've reread your original posting and your other postings on this thread.
I'm pretty sure you're not a troll; you may not even be a complete jerk. However, you have, in my opinion, a very off-putting way of communicating. I strongly suspect I'm blessed not to have had you as a colleague during my career - but, of course, I could be wrong.
Regards,
John