Job Discussion Forums

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I ask this question because so many that come to work here in China have different criteria for doing so. Some come for the "experience" and the pay is secondary. Some come here because China is just one more country out of several that they have yet to try but they still expect payment along the lines of other places they've been. Some are professional teachers and/or ESLers and think (hope?) they should be paid accordingly. We see a LOT of jobs that advertise in the range of maybe 3500 to 6000. Is somewhere in that range enough for you? What about 8000? 10000? 15000 or more? Yes, yes, of course almost all of us would like to be earning in the 15000+ area, but I'm guessing those kinds of job are few and far between and you'd actually have to *gasp!* work to earn it!

Some of us send money back home to save or pay bills. Some of us like to travel around the SE Asia area. Some of like to be comfortable enough to be able to buy the latest nifty electronic device or those tasty western foods without breaking the bank to do so. Some of us are happy living an idyllic Chinese lifestyle and having noodles and fried rice every night while playing Chinese chess and drinking cheap Chinese beers with our friends. THAT enjoyment doesn't cost a lot of money!

So, the question is not how much you currently earn, but how much would be enough for you and still be happy in China. I'm lucky enough to have a job that pays me MORE than I really need here in China, but I realize that, more sooner than later, I will be going home. So I'm trying to save, save, save for that eventuality. So I guess that what I earn is "enough", but more is always nice. Your thoughts?

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

Um, good enough question! I would replace the money thing however with are you happy with your standard of living here. I earn 4,500 RMB and I was given an apartment that needed a clean up plus some paint work in the kitchen.

I have just renewed for a second year. I came owing two and a half thousand back home in Oz on bankcard and can now pay it back by the end of these summer holidays.

As of now I have a good range of clothes for all seasons of good brand names. The kitchen has lots of equipment. I have an LCD screen in front of me. I have 2 top electric oil heaters and a fan. I've got stuff for both seasons for the bed, plus a mosquito setup over the bed as well, plus some furniture.

I eat out with friends with who I take it in turns with to pay two to three times a week. I've traveled around my local area. I don't count my RMB too much when I go shopping.

I have a couple of massages a week.

So if you want to enjoy life and you are not worried about �after China" then yes China can be good. Oh, I have just picked up a bit of casual work but for 60RMB an hour as that is what gets paid where I work.

So for one hour�s work I can get a back massage, haircut, a top restaurant meal (20RMB), two DVDs and enough food from the market for two days of home cooking. Life is just so hard here in China.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

And of course on Anda's payscale - why not save a whole day's pay - and buy a splinter new BMW.
Its not just a question of how much money you're happy with - but how much money is generated through your labour, and do you feel your wage reflects this amount!!!!!
Yes its easy to live here on low wages - but in what way is knowing you're being ripped-off adding to your overall quality of life????

Sonnet · Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 235 Location: South of the river

I'm happy if I earn enough that I can live comfortably enough:

- not having to penny-pinch when it comes to going out, eating out or shopping
- not having to worry about budgeting for bills
- being able to take regular short trips & one or two proper holidays in a year
- on top of this, able to save a little bit more, or make the occasional luxury purchase (electronics, really nice clothes, all the usual stuff)

I think that's, to me, a fair definition of a decent-paying job in any line of work, anywhere.

vikuk has a fair point, too; I wouldn't be overly happy working somewhere if my pay was bleeding the school dry, or if I felt I was being underpaid relative to profits. I'm in the fairly lucky position of having an insight into my school's finances, and it's nice to be able to check this.

I'm happy with what I earn. I think it's fair. I don't really think I could put a number on an "acceptable" level of pay - the criteria I've mentioned means that the actual amount could vary hugely between different jobs in different schools in different regions.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

Well, as most Westerners strive to live approximate to a middle-class life, and part of that standard journey is going through university; I too would like to come close to living middle-class. It has been debated on this forum what encompasses a middle-class income. But there should be no debate that 6,000 -8,000 RMB is far from it. I think it's unrealistic to try and amalgamate our sojourn into Chinese society as a sustained reflection of anything middle-class. I don't see expats working in international schools making 18,000 + as being upper-class, merely middle-class. I would classify the above spectrum as being working-class.

I think the percentage of people working in ESL China as a livelihood is quite small; I primarily think it is the bastion of recreational employment, and/or career exploration.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

Sonnet · Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 235 Location: South of the river

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

Let�s see I work in a college with 4,000 students that is considered rich as far as savings in the bank go. I give one class a week to 750 students plus a group of teachers.

Bit of casual work 30 students and I get 60 RMB. In South Korea I would get four times as much and have a third the students.

Different country different conditions! Give me China any day over Indonesia for instance.

I hate it when people say I am being ripped-off when it is clear that I am not. I am a person full stop and as such I am doing alright in China. Now if a nice local lady gives me a foot massage she gets 8RMB out of the twenty I pay for one hours work. A local doctor gets 2,000 RMB a month.

I looked at my old job in South Korea and saw that it is paying 22,000 RMB a month now. I do not want to rush back.

Ripped off is what happens back home these days where you live like a dog on an average pay. When I can live better on 4,500 RMB plus throw ins than I can on 14. 400 RMB after tax back home I consider myself of not being ripped off here in China.

One day very soon being white will no longer be considered to entitle oneself to special treatment.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

It really depends on what one's perception of being a FT in China is, and how one chooses to live in China. For some, being a FT in China means prestige and glamour, so they demand the big bucks to support their extravagant lifestyle. These FT's deride other FT's who ride buses or eat noodles for lunch.

Then, there are those FT's who just want to experience life in a different culture. They are content with a simple, no-frill lifestyle. Sure, they don't mind going to bars on weekends or buying some DVD's to occupy their time, but they don't need dining at expensive Western restaurants every few days to demonstrate their higher social status.

Next, you have those who view their time in China as one long, free vacation. Some fall into the mentality trap that since they are here to have fun and enjoy themselves, they should go crazy first then worry later. An example are the compulsive shoppers who can't resist buying anything and everything in sight because they are "so cheap". They find themselves barely saving any money at the end of every month, and having to live from pay day to pay day. One of my colleagues is like this. According to his fiance, they don't have any money saved up. I can believe her, because back in February, the FT asked me about pay day as he had used up almost all his money taking the girl travelling with him during the winter break.

I admit, I don't travel and I live a very frugal lifestyle. Even though I make the least between all my colleagues because I am the only one who the school never asked to teach extra classes at the branch school, I have done pretty good. My wife watches over our spending, so we have been able to save up quite a bit for the rainy day.

This is not to say I make only 3000 or 4000 RMB a month.

Sonnet · Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 235 Location: South of the river

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

Vikuk being white is often what is being paid for here in China. I try to teach well but their are good Chinese teachers about also.

Now lets look at the bit of paid summer work I have! I do one class with small kids a college educated Chinese lady does the next. I get 60 RMB and she gets 20 RMB. Sure I'm a good teacher but they're kids not adults. Now do you think I'm worth four, five, six times more than the Chinese lady?

I'll put it another way do you think I'm worth more than six and a half foot massage ladies. Like that's how I'm paid now for a bit of casual work teaching kids. I worked out that my normal job, pays me about 125 RMB an hour with the accommodation, holidays and airfares thrown in.

I came here to live not save. If I wanted to save I'd be back in South Korea.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842