Job Discussion Forums

[A Token of My Extreme]

[vikuk]

I can totally understand 7969 - on this basis -
The very nature of the FT job in China - being mainly exploited for our physical qualities rather than any professional prowess makes many FT's feel rather unimportant (in the long-run) - as if the status of teacher has gone through a process of disempowerment by being applied to the position of China FT.
Now since many of us - me included � enjoy that �teacher-like� feeling of being regarded as an expert and all the importance that is associated with that title - then it's only natural that Chinese work conditions will breed a group of FT's that will seize on a place like Dave's to shout � �listen to me, I'm an expert, which for you as a newbie is important�.
After all in our non-cyberspace Chinese workplaces - we don't have staff meetings, seminars or other similar forums, where we are usually invited to make this stand in front of our fellow "pro's" (at least a serious influencing school policy stand)

[blowinlicks]

Nature Girl - listen to what HunanforeignGuy has said. You are avoiding the real issue, which is that, we are NOT trying to protect our jobs; it's just that people instinctively recoil at gratuitously passing on to newbies (like yourself, trying to scam a position in China) their hard-earned experience and contacts. Stop trying to be a leech and get other people to do work for you and others by making the excuse that some various and sundry individuals on whatever forum in whatever country give their contacts freely.

[naturegirl321]

[blowinlicks]

Hey nature girl- no apology is forthcoming. You ARE NOT defending Hunan- You have clumsily confused his point to serve your own ends. Nowhere does he say that experience gets better jobs. You yourself have contacted me privately seeking info on working in China. I don't doubt that you are, or have been in China for some time. That is not the point - you ACT like a newbie. Again - don't confuse the issue. The OP wants info. Info comes hard. Saying that you can "see both sides" is inane.

[naturegirl321]

[blowinlicks]

Oh, by the way, Nature Girl - you ARE in Peru as we speak, correct? Apparently all of your so-called "experience" in China has not served you well. Come back to China, pay your dues, and stop seeking contacts and asking for apologies and making ersatz apologies for others with misguided PC crap. Read YOUR OWN WORDS carefully. Hunanforeign guy has much wisdom. Accept it for what it is, not for WHAT IT ISN'T in order to serve your own hidden agenda. Again- no apology is forthcoming. Apologize for your own inanity.

[naturegirl321]

[blowinlicks]

Yes, Nature girl, the more time you spend, the more likely it is that you will get a better job. But HUNAN didn't say that!!! You said what you believe!!! Stick to the point. Don't derail it. End of discussion. By the way, are you REALLY in L.A., or are you just pretending??? I happen to be in China as we speak, doing exactly the job that you would love to do. Don't insult me further. I offered you help - you failed to follow up, and instead went back to this forum trying to leech more info. Stick to the point - not your hidden agenda.

[naturegirl321]

[SnoopBot]

This thread indicates some very important points about teaching in China.

1. Even with the thousands of openings a desirable, position of respect and decent pay is hard to find.

2. Experience and education are not always considered important in the hiring process if they can find a cheaper replacement.

3. Nobody has real job security, even if they are told they are the best and the students love them. The next week they could be out the door with no explanation.

4. With this envirement and current conditions others covet their (if good) jobs, and will do anything to protect themselves- which is a normal trait. Hence- no helping the newbies.

How many of us had to work in crap-hole type places before we found something better? How many are still looking for that elusive position right now?


Has anyone ever wondered why Dave's or other ESL web boards never have those teachers posting information from the REAL International Schools? Very few threads on professional development or how to move up in this field. (If there is such a thing)

What information can be found about those jobs that pay a western salary 40-50K USD a year? Of course these top end jobs are going to be protected as much as possible. Years ago the staff that was working at these schools were listed on the school web pages with their qualifications.

Go look now, and see if this is true. Those pictures, teacher background qualifications, Email addresses are mostly all removed.


There was a reason for doing this too, I strongly feel these positions are filled via guanxi and often from abroad not locally from the existing teaching pools found in China.

So this job protection mode starts at the very top end jobs and moves down the ESL chain to the lowest job that a FT feels they must protect.

This isn't a reflection of the teachers but a good reflection of the truth about "Teaching in China."

[naturegirl321]

[HunanForeignGuy]

I came back to this thread after a short intellectual absence and I must say...

that I am a little surprised at the tenor of things around here.

First, to NatureGirl, I have enjoyed all of your posts, your conciliatory manner, your insight and your sharing.

Next, I thank blowinlicks for springing to my defense but I actually I never even believed that I was suffering any intellectual injury on this thread and I regret that you may have misinterpreted NatureGirl's "lignee de pensee" as the French say but in my own case I was able to follow her meaning.

All the best and if we could return to the essential items which Snoopbot has really set out quite in the post about three posts above this one.

HFG

[naturegirl321]

[latefordinner]

Snnopbot, HFG, thanks for getting the thread back on track. Snoopbot, that is as tight a summary as anyone could ask for. May not be what every newbie wants to read, but its what every newbie should read.