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RECRUITERS IN A HURRY TO HIRE?

 
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Expat40



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Location: CANADA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: RECRUITERS IN A HURRY TO HIRE? Reply with quote

I have been dealing with Kojen, while I have been outside Taiwan. Same for the other three or four recruiters. Each time, I am getting the same answer.......THE MOMENT THEY ASK ME, EXPECTED DATE OF ARRIVAL, I STATE SEPTEMBER 2007, OR AUGUST 2007, IF THE SCHOOL IS REALLY GOOD AND THE CONTRACT IS IN PLACE. When I ask them detailed questions about the school and contract....I GET A SIMPLE REJECTION FOR AN ANSWER. REJECTION MEANING...NO REPLY!! Questions:

A) Are they in such a hurry to make money that they can't even bother to answer simple questions posed by a prospective teacher?
B) How could Sept 2007 be considered late? Do they mean that by Sept/2007, ALL JOBS WOULD HAVE VANISHED?
C) It seems that none of the recruiters like answering ANY QUESTIONS when it comes to the terms of the contract. The attitude at their end has been...OH WE HAVE A JOB WAITING, JUST COME ON AND FLY OVER! Who in the RIGHT MIND would fly over without even discussing where the school is, what the pay will be, and terms of the contract.

For those who wish to know the recruiters in question:

A) Dewey and Company.
B) A Kojen Recruiter.
C) Hess Recruiters.

Perhaphs they forget, NOT EVERYBODY IS THAT DESPERATE TO FLY OVER simply on "typed words by a recruiter." Surprised
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: RECRUITERS IN A HURRY TO HIRE? Reply with quote

I think that your annoyance is not based upon a failure of these companies but in your lack of understanding of the situation here in Taiwan. This is not a slight on you as you are not here so couldn�t know how it works � hence your questions!!

Expat40 wrote:
A) Are they in such a hurry to make money that they can't even bother to answer simple questions posed by a prospective teacher?


I don�t think that it is about money actually. Recruiters generally receive requests from lots of people, most of whom never end up actually developing into a legitimate lead. This is the nature of the business and they have to accept this of course.

An experienced recruiter knows that the best leads are the individuals with imminent arrival plans as there is less chance that a relative could get sick, a job offer back home may creep into the picture, a romantic relationship back home may take a different turn, or any of the other myriad of reasons peoples plans to teach overseas change.

Add to this the fact that the schools that recruiters place you with probably don�t even know their teacher requirements more than a month in advance and it becomes clear that the recruiter cannot guarantee you a placement that far in advance either.

This is not to say that they are not interested in you, it just means that there is little that they can do now to help you with a placement a few months down the track.

Expat40 wrote:
B) How could Sept 2007 be considered late? Do they mean that by Sept/2007, ALL JOBS WOULD HAVE VANISHED?


My guess is that they mean that the date is later than most of their current placements. They are probably working on placements within a one month schedule. September is beyond their area of planning and also beyond the planning of the schools.

Expat40 wrote:
C) It seems that none of the recruiters like answering ANY QUESTIONS when it comes to the terms of the contract. The attitude at their end has been...OH WE HAVE A JOB WAITING, JUST COME ON AND FLY OVER! Who in the RIGHT MIND would fly over without even discussing where the school is, what the pay will be, and terms of the contract.


Not sure what your experience has been there. In the case of a recruiter who places with many different schools the above sounds reasonable as until they know exactly which school you will be placed with they will be unable to discuss the terms of any contract considering the contract is offered by the school not the recruiter.

In the case of Hess and Kojen though you should have no trouble getting answers on the contract as it is standard. What questions were you asking that were not answered?

Expat40 wrote:
Perhaphs they forget, NOT EVERYBODY IS THAT DESPERATE TO FLY OVER simply on "typed words by a recruiter." Surprised


I don�t think that it is a sign a desperation to come to Taiwan without a job lined up and a signed and sealed contract. In fact I would say that it is the norm.

If you want a signed and sealed contract with a firm job commitment before you come then I would recommend dealing with schools directly not recruiters.

Having said that this method is not the best way to go for everyone as in doing so you and the school will be committed to each other even though they have never met you and you have never visited the school.
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BigWally



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

once again Clark comes thru with some great posting....

to further his point, my school isnt even CONSIDERING September hiring right now, they are concentrating on hiring teachers to start in the lucrative "right after summer" start time (ie. August 6th)...you have to think that once you arrive at the school, there is typically some training period where you may not be able to actually teach classes, so there needs to be overlap...
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Toe Save



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Location: 'tween the pipes.........

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP's post begs the question: Who in their right mind woud accept a contract from overseas? Twisted Evil
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Expat40



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Location: CANADA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: RECRUITERS IN A HURRY TO HIRE? Reply with quote

clark.w.griswald wrote:
I think that your annoyance is not based upon a failure of these companies but in your lack of understanding of the situation here in Taiwan. This is not a slight on you as you are not here so couldn�t know how it works � hence your questions!!

Expat40 wrote:
A) Are they in such a hurry to make money that they can't even bother to answer simple questions posed by a prospective teacher?


I don�t think that it is about money actually. Recruiters generally receive requests from lots of people, most of whom never end up actually developing into a legitimate lead. This is the nature of the business and they have to accept this of course.

An experienced recruiter knows that the best leads are the individuals with imminent arrival plans as there is less chance that a relative could get sick, a job offer back home may creep into the picture, a romantic relationship back home may take a different turn, or any of the other myriad of reasons peoples plans to teach overseas change.

Add to this the fact that the schools that recruiters place you with probably don�t even know their teacher requirements more than a month in advance and it becomes clear that the recruiter cannot guarantee you a placement that far in advance either.

This is not to say that they are not interested in you, it just means that there is little that they can do now to help you with a placement a few months down the track.

Expat40 wrote:
B) How could Sept 2007 be considered late? Do they mean that by Sept/2007, ALL JOBS WOULD HAVE VANISHED?


My guess is that they mean that the date is later than most of their current placements. They are probably working on placements within a one month schedule. September is beyond their area of planning and also beyond the planning of the schools.

Expat40 wrote:
C) It seems that none of the recruiters like answering ANY QUESTIONS when it comes to the terms of the contract. The attitude at their end has been...OH WE HAVE A JOB WAITING, JUST COME ON AND FLY OVER! Who in the RIGHT MIND would fly over without even discussing where the school is, what the pay will be, and terms of the contract.


Not sure what your experience has been there. In the case of a recruiter who places with many different schools the above sounds reasonable as until they know exactly which school you will be placed with they will be unable to discuss the terms of any contract considering the contract is offered by the school not the recruiter.

In the case of Hess and Kojen though you should have no trouble getting answers on the contract as it is standard. What questions were you asking that were not answered?

Expat40 wrote:
Perhaphs they forget, NOT EVERYBODY IS THAT DESPERATE TO FLY OVER simply on "typed words by a recruiter." Surprised


I don�t think that it is a sign a desperation to come to Taiwan without a job lined up and a signed and sealed contract. In fact I would say that it is the norm.

If you want a signed and sealed contract with a firm job commitment before you come then I would recommend dealing with schools directly not recruiters.

Having said that this method is not the best way to go for everyone as in doing so you and the school will be committed to each other even though they have never met you and you have never visited the school.


Thanks a million! Your detailed answer certainly helps in forming a better picture. Perhaphs it is wise to deal with the schools directly!! Obviously, they would be in a position to know best, as amd when they would need someone on their schedule. Thank you for replying each section, individually. I am not here to criticize any particular school or recruiter, but rather to figure out what exactly was happening to my applications, when I had full intent to come, within weeks, but the recruiters are chasing folks who wanted to come within days!! And, of course it ties in with the summer break just starting there.

I checked the List of Taiwan schools website. Its a paid website, nominal amount - so not a big deal. Questions: Before I subscribe to it - Does it have ads directly posted by schools with their email contacts or is it again a list of blind ads, where one doesn't actually even know if the reply is going to a recruiter or to the school directly?

The website seems to have a comprehensive database of schools, which, non-subscribers cannot see. With subscription, would you say that the links are directly connected to school websites with contact email addresses? Laughing

On a more humorous note: The amount of ads one sees on the Taiwan job posting websites, makes one think that they are "devouring" teachers, as if they are going out of style!
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Expat40



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Location: CANADA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigWally wrote:
once again Clark comes thru with some great posting....

to further his point, my school isnt even CONSIDERING September hiring right now, they are concentrating on hiring teachers to start in the lucrative "right after summer" start time (ie. August 6th)...you have to think that once you arrive at the school, there is typically some training period where you may not be able to actually teach classes, so there needs to be overlap...


He sure does! I am impressed! Amazing information you guys are providing. Its already July 11th, add to that teacher training BEFORE August 6th, and we are looking at flying within next week! Now, THATS FUNNY! No wonder the recruiters are asking - "how soon can ya fly?" To them, I guess, 4 weeks is WAY TOOOO LATE! Smile
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Expat40



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Location: CANADA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toe Save wrote:
The OP's post begs the question: Who in their right mind woud accept a contract from overseas? Twisted Evil


I suppose in the english teaching arena, when one is overseas, does one REALLY have a choice but to fly on "good faith" with 2 pieces of paper in their hands?
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Toe Save



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 202
Location: 'tween the pipes.........

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Expat40 wrote:
Toe Save wrote:
The OP's post begs the question: Who in their right mind woud accept a contract from overseas? Twisted Evil


I suppose in the english teaching arena, when one is overseas, does one REALLY have a choice but to fly on "good faith" with 2 pieces of paper in their hands?


I'd suggest using an airplane.
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Serious_Fun



Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: terra incognita

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toe Save wrote:
I'd suggest using an airplane.


Laughing Cool
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: RECRUITERS IN A HURRY TO HIRE? Reply with quote

You have asked some specific questions here so I assume that it is appropriate to answer them here but feel free to direct any further questions to us over at that site.

Expat40 wrote:
Does it have ads directly posted by schools with their email contacts or is it again a list of blind ads, where one doesn't actually even know if the reply is going to a recruiter or to the school directly?


Job ads is not our focus over there so I would not encourage joining up if that is your sole purpose. Our focus is archiving information about schools so that once you have shortlisted a few schools you can check them out there to see what other teachers have said about them in the past. A side aim is giving you contact access to schools that may not currently be advertising positions but may still be interested in hiring the right applicant.

For jobs I would really recommend eslcafe.com and also forumosa.com The jobs that are listed on the buxiban.com site are direct contact with the school as the nature of the site makes it impossible for recruiters to post jobs under names other than the company name that they register with our site. Some of the free sites do get hijacked by recruiters who post under the name of schools but ours does not have this problem.

Expat40 wrote:
The website seems to have a comprehensive database of schools, which, non-subscribers cannot see. With subscription, would you say that the links are directly connected to school websites with contact email addresses? Laughing


It is a bit of a mixed bag actually. Some listings have full contact details some only partial contact details, and a small percentage no contact details at all as they are a record of comment. Contact details being street address, phone number, email address and website. Where listed the email address and the website are the schools direct contacts. Over there schools are clearly schools and recruiters are clearly recruiters! We feel that this is important.

One of the big problems that you will likely face when you contact schools directly is lack of response. If a school is not looking for a teacher at the time that you contact them then they will likely ignore your contact or file it away for future reference.

I would not give up on the recruiter route if I were you but would instead supplement this with your own efforts to contact schools directly.
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